Summon Nature's Ally

[mcgeedis]

In another post on a different website, I read that a Druid can talk (and effectively instruct) a Hippogriff in Combat. Is this true? And if so, why? And if this is indeed true, it got me thinking... What other animals can a Druid summon that they can talk to and "command" on the battlefield?

In case you cannot tell, I am building a summoner of a Druid. So, while I am at it, what tips can you give? What animals/elementals do you prefer? Do you have a house rule for the horrible Augment Summoning prerequisite of Spell Focus: Conjuration? Is Greenbound Summoning too overpowered (duh!).

Thanks!

 

[Al'Kelhar]

In another post on a different website, I read that a Druid can talk (and effectively instruct) a Hippogriff in Combat. Is this true? And if so, why? And if this is indeed true, it got me thinking... What other animals can a Druid summon that they can talk to and "command" on the battlefield?

In case you cannot tell, I am building a summoner of a Druid. So, while I am at it, what tips can you give? What animals/elementals do you prefer? Do you have a house rule for the horrible Augment Summoning prerequisite of Spell Focus: Conjuration? Is Greenbound Summoning too overpowered (duh!).

Thanks!

A druid (or any other spellcaster using a summon monster/nature's ally spell) cannot automatically communicate with their summoned creatures.

Summon Nature’s Ally I
Conjuration (Summoning)
Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One summoned creature
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
This spell summons a natural creature. It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions.
A summoned monster cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature, nor can it use any teleportation or planar travel abilities. Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them.
The spell conjures one of the creatures from the 1st-level list on the accompanying Summon Nature’s Ally table. You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can change that choice each time you cast the spell. All the creatures on the table are neutral unless otherwise noted.

(Emphasis mine). The summoned creature "attacks your opponents to the best of its ability" unless you can communicate with it and instruct it otherwise. The spell does not provide a means of communication with the summoned creature. For creatures able to speak or understand a language, you need to be able to speak their language. For animals or magical beasts, you could try a Wild Empathy check, but given the duration of summon spells, you're probably going to have to make that check as an hasty attempt (a full-round action rather than a minute), taking a -10 penalty in doing so. You can also use the trusty speak with animals spell.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Hypersmurf]

In another post on a different website, I read that a Druid can talk (and effectively instruct) a Hippogriff in Combat. Is this true? And if so, why? And if this is indeed true, it got me thinking... What other animals can a Druid summon that they can talk to and "command" on the battlefield?

Actually, no - a Hippogriff is in an awkward place in the rules that makes it very hard to talk to.

With an Intelligence of 2, it does not automatically understand any language.

However, since it's a Magical Beast, not an Animal, it's not subject to Speak With Animals.

Most creatures from Summon lists can be communicated with in some way. The 'animals' from the Summon Monster lists are all Fiendish or Celestial, and thus have an Int of 3 and understand Common. The animals from SNA don't understand Common, but druids have Speak With Animals. Elementals understand a language, and when I'm playing a druid I usually spend some points on at least one or two elemental languages... plus it means they can be spoken to with Tongues, for example.

But Hippogriffs are just damned hard to speak to.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You can also use the trusty speak with animals spell.

... but not for a Hippogriff.

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

So obviously you wait until you can summon a hippogriff with some kind of template stuck on it that raises its Int, or grants it some kind of other means of communicating other than tearing pieces of meat apart.

Celestial Hippogriff? (Celestial)
Axiomatic Hippogriff? (What do Lawful creatures speak?)
Fiery Hippogriff? (Ignan)

*Edited cause I misremembered what Fire elementals spoke...

 

[Hypersmurf]

So obviously you wait until you can summon a hippogriff with some kind of template stuck on it that raises its Int, or grants it some kind of other means of communicating other than tearing pieces of meat apart.

Celestial Hippogriff? (Celestial)

Common.

Axiomatic Hippogriff? (What do Lawful creatures speak?)

If it has an Int of 3 and no language listed in its description? It understands Common.

But a druid's Summon Nature's Ally never summons a templated hippogriff. He'd need some sort of feat or PrC ability that changes his Summonses to do that; higher level spell isn't enough.

-Hyp.

 

[wedgeski]

So let's say the Hippogriff is summoned, and tears the guy that's attacking the druid into tiny pieces. What does it do then? Attack one of the remaining foes at random, defend the druid as a priority, what...? This is assuming that the druid can't communicate with it and tell/ask it to do something specific.

Having played alongside a druid in a recently-finished campaign, I've always thought they seemed absolutely colossal in melee with powerful summoned creatures all over the place, and wondered whether there was some rules subtlety that was being missed.

 

[green slime]

Common.



If it has an Int of 3 and no language listed in its description? It understands Common.

But a druid's Summon Nature's Ally never summons a templated hippogriff. He'd need some sort of feat or PrC ability that changes his Summonses to do that; higher level spell isn't enough.

-Hyp.

Or some merciless DM to deny it to him...

Seriously, I'd have no problem allowing the Druid to apply the Elemental templates from MotP. I have table where I've gauged the CR / SNA-SM, so reasonable requests aren't a problem.

 

[mcgeedis]

Thanks for the info. Makes sense now.

Do you have a house rule for the horrible Augment Summoning prerequisite of Spell Focus: Conjuration?

I cannot bring myself to take the Spell Focus: Conjuration feat just to get Augment Summoning. Does anyone do anything in particular to help with this? Any ideas what I could propose to my DM?

 

[Wolfwood2]

I cannot bring myself to take the Spell Focus: Conjuration feat just to get Augment Summoning. Does anyone do anything in particular to help with this? Any ideas what I could propose to my DM?

All I can say is that for a druid, Augment Summoning really is worth two feats. It's most worth it from level 3 (when you start to get a decent summons duration) through level 13 (the top two levels of Summon Nature's Ally aren't as competitive).