D&D 5E Summon Monster: 5th Edition

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone. Ever since 4th Edition, I've been missing the Summon Monster spell. Now, with the advent of Concentration, it seems like we should have been able to get it, but we didn't. In the 5E PHB, we got the following summoning spells:

Conjure Animals: 3rd level, 1 CR 2, 2 CR 1, 4 CR 1/2, or 8 CR 1/4. Upcast as a 5th level slot for twice as many, 7th level slot for 3 times as many, or 9th level slot for 4 times as many.

Conjure Celestial: 7th level, 1 CR 4. Upcast as a 9th level slot for CR 5.

Conjure Elemental: 5th level, 1 CR 5. Upcast +1 level for +1 CR. Turns hostile if you lose concentration.

Conjure Fey: 6th level, 1 CR 6. Upcast +1 level for +1 CR. Turns hostile if you lose concentration.

Conjure Minor Elementals: 4th level, 1 CR 2, 2 CR 1, 4 CR 1/2, or 8 CR 1/4. Upcast as a 6th level slot for twice as many, or 8th level slot for 3 times as many.

Conjure Woodland Beings: Same as conjure elementals.

Now, with the introduction of the Mystic playtest, we also have:

Shadow Beasts: Effectively 2nd level, 2 CR 1/2 (shadows).

Animate Air, Earth, Fire, or Water: Effectively 5th level, 1 CR 5 (elemental).

Aside from the fact that the mystic's are right off more powerful than the PHB spells, and conjure minor elementals and conjure woodland beings seem weaker on the surface than conjure animals (higher level, same CR), we can see some scaling here. 2 CR X are equal to 1 CR X+1, it would seem. Downscaling Conjure Animals would get us a level 1 spell that could summon 1 CR 1 creature, but that seems quite too powerful.

So the first real question is this: How powerful of a creature should a level 1 character be able to summon? It should't be more powerful than a level 1 character, right?

Playing with the Mystic's baselines, I'm thinking a CR 1/2 would be appropriate for a level 1 (or 2 pp) effect. Scaling with PP or SP, that would give: level 1, CR 1/2; level 2, CR 1; level 2.5 (4 pp) CR 2; level 3, CR 3; level 4, CR 4; level 5, CR 5.

But would being able to drop a CR 1/2 creature into a fight be too good for a 1st level spell? A CR 1/2 creature is about as potent as a PC; a really simple fighter (HP 12, AC 18, Attack +5, Damage 9 (1d8+5) comes in at CR 1. Chromatic Orb does 13.5 (3d8) damage, so a summon would definitely have to do less than that.

Anyone have any thoughts? I'll stop myself here before I start rambling.

 

[Leatherhead]

The main problem with most summon spells are the impact they have on action economy. Trading concentration for access to an entire other character, or worse multiple characters (even monster NPCs) is just too good.

 

[CydKnight]

Do not overlook the Gate spell. Even though you may have no means of controlling what comes through it, you can summon powerful creatures with this spell.

 

[jgsugden]

Summon is multiple effects in one. It provides offense (attacks) and defense (absorbs damage). It provides extra actions. As the monster is disposable, it provides a lot of versatility in trap location, scouting, etc... It can give you a variety of spells if you are allowed to summon creatures that use magic. All of these factors combine to make it unreasonable to have a versatile summoning spell like the old monster summon spells at low levels.

If you want the spells, and you want them to be balanced, you need to make sure the summoned creatures do not give the caster significant new abilities (like spellcasting, magical abilities, etc...) You need to make sure the summoned creature(s) are significantly less effective than having another PC in the party. In my opinion, a spell that summons a single goblin might be an appropriate 3rd level spell. It sounds ridiculpous at first blush, but when you factor in all that can be done with it - it is a weaker version of Unseen Servant, Shield, Action Surge, Firebolt, and a few other spells all rolled into one - it makes sense. However, I doubt most people would be terribly interested in a single goblin for a 3rd level spell.

 

[Krachek]

Based on Conjure animals level 3 spell
One beast of challenge rating 2 or lower
Two Beasts of challenge rating 1 or lower
Four Beasts of challenge rating 1/2 or lower
Eight Beasts of challenge rating 1/4 or lower

We can go the linear way and have:
A conjure animals level 1
One beast of challenge rating 1/2 or lower
Two Beasts of challenge rating 1/4 or lower
Four Beasts of challenge rating 1/8 or lower

But Spell increase power not in a linear way.
Conjure element level 5 spell, can conjure one CR 5.
Conjure minor elemental give you one CR 2 for a level 4 spell. -3 CR for 1 spell level.


A conjure animals level 1, more realistically could be
One beast of challenge rating 1/8 or lower

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Find familiar is the 1st level summoning spell, and eyeballing the choices, I think [MENTION=6811643]Krachek[/MENTION] is right, you would be looking at best CR 1/8. The chainlock doesn't even get a CR 1 critter until level 3, and class powers are supposed to be stronger then spells.

So maybe level 1 1/8 or less
level 2 CR 1/2 or less
level 3 CR 1 (at best you would get it 2 levels behind the chainlock)
and then match up with conjure animals/minor elementals/woodland creatures.

Conjure woodland creatures aside, monsters with a lot of utility powers are considered more valuable than their CR as seen with the conjure celestial spell.

 

[devincutler]

Let me ask the original poster this. You say you have been missing the summon monster spell. Why? What do you miss about it? If the answer is you miss how it dominates the battle and let you kick butt over everything, that's one thing. If the answer is you miss some specific role or the like that cannot be met by other spells already in 5e, then please explain.

I found 3.5 summoning to be horrific. It slowed down battles, allowed a summoner to dominate the playing time, made fighters useless, and forced everyone to have Protection from Evil which then forced the casters to summon hordes of arrowhawks or the like to bombard foes at range. In short, it was not enjoyable.

 

[Elderbrain]

Summoning monsters to fight for you is a long-time fantasy/RPG trope, devincutler. And it's been in virtually every edition of D&D. If the problem is that the monsters summonable at a particular level or by a specific spell are too powerful (or too many can be summoned at once), that's one thing. But severely limiting what can be summoned is bad, too. I think part of the objection is that instead of one "Summon Monster" spell, 5e has broken it up into several different spells, and some categories of summoned monsters don't have spells devoted to them (no "Summon Fiend" spell, for example... how's the evil NPC Wizard going to get himself a devil or demon ally?)

 

[discosoc]

Summoning monsters to fight for you is a long-time fantasy/RPG trope, devincutler. And it's been in virtually every edition of D&D. If the problem is that the monsters summonable at a particular level or by a specific spell are too powerful (or too many can be summoned at once), that's one thing. But severely limiting what can be summoned is bad, too. I think part of the objection is that instead of one "Summon Monster" spell, 5e has broken it up into several different spells, and some categories of summoned monsters don't have spells devoted to them (no "Summon Fiend" spell, for example... how's the evil NPC Wizard going to get himself a devil or demon ally?)

No, the concept just sucks for table-top games. It provides offense, defense, increased action economy, and slows combat down for everyone else. There's nothing remotely balanced about it, and I can't recall an edition where it was.

 

[devincutler]

Summoning monsters to fight for you is a long-time fantasy/RPG trope, devincutler. And it's been in virtually every edition of D&D. If the problem is that the monsters summonable at a particular level or by a specific spell are too powerful (or too many can be summoned at once), that's one thing. But severely limiting what can be summoned is bad, too. I think part of the objection is that instead of one "Summon Monster" spell, 5e has broken it up into several different spells, and some categories of summoned monsters don't have spells devoted to them (no "Summon Fiend" spell, for example... how's the evil NPC Wizard going to get himself a devil or demon ally?)

And aside from fiends, it is available in 5e. Most every other type that should logically be summonable is. The real problem is that there are not enough creatures available yet to fill up the options for these spells (for example, try to find an elemental that is more than CR 1/2 and not over CR1). But that is taken up by third party monster books and will be eventually dealt with by future supplements.

As far as fiends, just mirror the conjure celestial spell to conjure fiend. Done!

Additionally, the planar ally spell can call forth a fiend (if that sort of thing appeals to your deity).

Your worry about evil NPC wizards is unfounded, IMO. It's an NPC...it can do anything the DM wants. The DM just says this dude knows a ritual to summon fiends. Done and done. There is no need to therefore create a new spell and allow the PCs to be summoning stuff all over the place.

Summoning monsters was not a big part of D&D prior to 3rd edition. The monster summoning spells of 2nd edition and 1st edition were either very underpowered or very risky. I think 5e has it about right.