succubi can't go ethereal on outer planes?

[Voadam]

In lord of the Iron Fortress it has a side bar saying the ethereal does not touch the outer planes so powers like ethereal jaunt do not work on the outer planes.

So outsiders like the succubus can't use their ethereal powers unless they come to the material plane?

Is this right?

The srd only has vague references about the ethereal plane's connections.

THE ETHEREAL PLANE
The Ethereal Plane is coexistent with the Material Plane and often other planes as well. The Material Plane itself is visible from the Ethereal Plane, but it appears muted and indistinct, its colors blurring into each other and its edges turning fuzzy.
While it is possible to see into the Material Plane from the Ethereal Plane, the Ethereal Plane is usually invisible to those on the Material Plane. Normally, creatures on the Ethereal Plane cannot attack creatures on the Material Plane, and vice versa. A traveler on the Ethereal Plane is invisible, incorporeal, and utterly silent to someone on the Material Plane.
The Ethereal Plane is mostly empty of structures and impediments. However, the plane has its own inhabitants. Some of these are other ethereal travelers, but the ghosts found here pose a particular peril to those who walk the fog.
It has the following traits.
• No gravity.
• Alterable morphic. The plane contains little to alter, however.
• Mildly neutral-aligned.
• Normal magic. Spells function normally on the Ethereal Plane, though they do not cross into the Material Plane.
The only exceptions are spells and spell-like abilities that have the force descriptor and abjuration spells that affect ethereal beings. Spellcasters on the Material Plane must have some way to detect foes on the Ethereal Plane before targeting them with force-based spells, of course. While it’s possible to hit ethereal enemies with a force spell cast on the Material Plane, the reverse isn’t possible. No magical attacks cross from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane, including force attacks.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Going back to 2ED, the Ethereal can only be accessed while on the Inner and Material Planes (and demi-planes because they are in the Ethereal). I have a House Rule that every Plane has its own Shadow Plane, and that is what is accessed when the Ethereal isn't reachable.

I can't recall exactly how 3ED does it, but I think it has changed since 2ED so that the Ethereal and Astral are accessable from anywhere. It's been a while since I read the MotP, though, and I'm not sure if that has changed since the 3.5 modeling of the Planes in the DMG. I'm sure someone knows, though.

 

[werk]

I believe 3.5 supports the planescape cosmology (or anything the DM wants, really) and that's the way it worked there.

Outer does not overlap with etheral.
Inner does not overlap with astral.

But the planes are completely the realm of the DM. He can set it up however he wants.

 

[Ranes]

In lord of the Iron Fortress it has a side bar saying the ethereal does not touch the outer planes so powers like ethereal jaunt do not work on the outer planes.

So outsiders like the succubus can't use their ethereal powers unless they come to the material plane?

That's the default in the MotP. On the Ethereal Plane are "curtains" which, like portals, act as conduits to many other planes. However, these are one-way and lead from the Ethereal to other planes, not vice-versa. However the MotP also has the option of Multiple Ethereals, from which, I quote:

"Finally, you can link multiple planes through one Ethereal Plane. For example, all the Outer Planes might link to the same Ethereal Plane, while another Ethereal Plane links the Inner Planes to the Material Plane."

Another option describes every plane as having its own Ethereal Mini-Plane. Both options take care of outsiders using ethereal abilities on the Outer Planes.

 

[Ranes]

But the planes are completely the realm of the DM. He can set it up however he wants.

Of course, that's the bottom line. (Well, it was in werk's post.)

 

[Shemeska]

w/ respect to the Great Wheel

3e took the ethereal plane and beat it with a rubber club for a few hours, then dressed it up a french whore and tossed it out on the street. It's gimped in 3e.

Previous to 3e the Ethreal plane was the realm of manifest probability, the birthplace of demiplanes and the transitive plane that bridged between the prime material and the inner planes.

3e threw all of that out seemingly for no reason other than some spell mechanics changed and of course 'simplification'. Whoever made that call, you dropped the ball on it. 3e replaced that role as a transitive with the Astral plane, making it a catchall transitive that went everywhere, effectively nullifying its previous definition as the realm of abstract thought that bridged between the prime and the outer planes, the planes of solidified belief.

The ethereal now just overlays the prime material, seemingly having no purpose in 3e other than 'ghosts are there'. Brilliant guys, way to go.

So long answer to a short question, no you can't go ethereal on the outer planes in 3e, nor in previous editions when the ethereal hadn't yet had a hacksaw taken to it. But succubi, more so than most Tanar'ri, spend time frequently on the prime, and their ability to go ethereal works fine there.

Me? I still use the 2e/Planescape cosmology with the astral and ethereal still holding places that made sense, and I still use the para and quasielemental planes that 3e likewise did away with in the name of simplification. Taking away flavor for no apparent reason is never a good thing, it's bad design.

 

[Squire James]

In my campaigns, every plane has its own "Etheral Plane" fulfilling much the same role as it does on the Prime. There are openings to another plane's Ethereal, though they tend to be in different places than the planar openings on the "base plane". This generally keeps the players on their toes a little bit, because being in the Abyss doesn't necessarily mean that they are safe from ethereal threats (including succubi).

 

[wingsandsword]

In 2e Planescape cosmology, and the 1e Manual of the Planes cosmology, the ethereal plane wasn't accessable from the Astral Plane or Outer planes, so etherealness only worked on the Prime Material Plane, The Inner Planes, and of course on the Ethereal Plane (all demiplanes were considered to be in the ethereal.).

Lord of the Iron Fortress was released in January 2002, Manual of the Planes 3e was released in September 2001. They were probably both being written at the same time, LotIF was written knowing that the MotP would be using the same general cosmology as ever and assumed that there was no Ethereal access from the Astral and Outer planes, while the MotP writers changed that one. When MotP was published with the changes, either it was too late to stop the reference LoIF, or it wasn't noticed by the authors of LotIF.

MotP 3e had several big changes to the original cosmology, the addition to a shadow plane (implied before or referred to as a demiplane, it was never before a major transitive plane), and making the astral and ethereal accessable from all planes, so expert writers/DM's on the planes could make subtle mistakes when dealing with the standard 3e planar arrangement. Of course, Teleportation didn't require access to the Astral before 3e, so denying Astral access didn't limit teleportation in the inner planes.

 

[Psion]

MotP 3e had several big changes to the original cosmology, the addition to a shadow plane (implied before or referred to as a demiplane, it was never before a major transitive plane), and making the astral and ethereal accessable from all planes

Bolded for emphasis.

Sheesh... took 7 posts in for someone to present the right answer. Your geek-fu is weak, you all!

Of course, by default, its disparate little ethereal planes, not one big connected ethereal. But at least now it makes sense why an outer planar creature would have etherealness.

IMC, the upper outer planes touch the ethereal, and the lower outer planes touch the shadow plane.

 

[Alzrius]

Of course, by default, its disparate little ethereal planes, not one big connected ethereal. But at least now it makes sense why an outer planar creature would have etherealness.

Well, the default is that basically (in 2E terms) there's only a Border Ethereal for the Prime.

My geek-fu is strong.