(sub) Dungeon -Deities and Demigods: The Raven Queen

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

A new Dungeon article is up (subscription required):
Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (The Raven Queen)
Seems like the re-organization of dragon/dungeon material is fully working.

The article discusses the Raven Queen. Some of the information was already available in other supplements or articles.

Fluff:
The article discusses the rise of the Raven Queen to godhood and her relationships to the gods.

It also describes 3 Sects or Cults that are related to the Raven Queen but have secret agendas not exactly to the Raven Queens interest.

Crunchy Stuff:
- 5 stat blocks for different Raven Queen followers
- 1 stat block for Unkindness of Raven, It's basically a swarm or raven that might form up from regular ravens when trespassers defile her sacred grounds.

Critique:
If the artwork depicts the Raven Queen, she's hot. It's time she also gets the domain of summer.

I personally think there could be a little more to describe how the Raven Queen is unaligned. I think it shines a little through when it describes her priests and servants - they attend to the dead and are enduring how society treats them as "unclean". They are not "abusing" this power to create undead or otherwise gain personal power. If the Raven Queen can inspire people to do that, she probably isn't evil (but it doesn't make her good.)

I love the Unkindness of Ravens because the mechanics really nail the flavor.
Aside from using it as intended, you can now recreate Hitchcock's "Birds".

 

[Nai_Calus]

Hurf, you posted yours while I was typing mine. Derp.

Copypasta:
No surprises here. The Raven Queen is ambitious, does creepy stuff that leans towards evil for me, and some of the servants statted as monsters are very much 'What the HELL' moment-inducing.

Apparently we're no longer going with the Elf-Eladrin-Drow split way back in the mists of ancient ancient time if the Raven Queen is supposedly sending her minions to help Corellon with fighting against Lolth(Pfft like he needs it). Bizzare. Not fond of it.

Article did nothing at all to change my mind on the Raven Queen, and as with pretty much everything that comes out on her made me like her and her followers even less. Especially since everything on mortal servants was wrapped up in the 'omg deth!' thing and ignored the fate and winter aspects that might make it more interesting than Gothy McGrimdark.

On the bright side, I'm extremely glad to see a return to the Bane-style format of having the article actually be about the god, as opposed to the utter lameitude that was the Bahamut one. This is the kind of article I want to see.

Now they need to do one on Corellon.

-

I'm still getting rather an evil-ish vibe from her, probably due to the whole souls bit. Messing with souls is, to me, Evil, period.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Hurf, you posted yours while I was typing mine. Derp.

Derp? Ninja is the expression to be used here, not some word I don't understand but must clearly be an insult!

Copypasta:

Mhhh, Pasta.

No surprises here. The Raven Queen is ambitious, does creepy stuff that leans towards evil for me, and some of the servants statted as monsters are very much 'What the HELL' moment-inducing.

Apparently we're no longer going with the Elf-Eladrin-Drow split way back in the mists of ancient ancient time if the Raven Queen is supposedly sending her minions to help Corellon with fighting against Lolth(Pfft like he needs it). Bizzare. Not fond of it.

I am not sure about the time scales, but the Raven Queen can't be _that_ recent either. "Ancient Mist of Times" though seems more like the war against the Primordials, and I am not sure the Raven Queen was there already.

Article did nothing at all to change my mind on the Raven Queen, and as with pretty much everything that comes out on her made me like her and her followers even less. Especially since everything on mortal servants was wrapped up in the 'omg deth!' thing and ignored the fate and winter aspects that might make it more interesting than Gothy McGrimdark.

On the bright side, I'm extremely glad to see a return to the Bane-style format of having the article actually be about the god, as opposed to the utter lameitude that was the Bahamut one. This is the kind of article I want to see.

Now they need to do one on Corellon.

Corellon might be a good choice.

I noticed that the Raven Queen has a lot of potenital for conflicts with other "parties". The adventure books for D&D 4 so far focus on Orcus attempt to usurp the Raven Queen, but Vecna is also one of her enemies. And apparently, there are also some former Nerull priests that want to revive him.

Bahamut has Tiamat as "natural" enemy, Correlon has Lolth. If they want to highlight established divine conflicts, Correlon is a good choice, but if they want to introduce new ones, more on Erathis or Melora might be more interesting.

I'm still getting rather an evil-ish vibe from her, probably due to the whole souls bit. Messing with souls is, to me, Evil, period.

Yes, that is my biggest issue. I find it hard to "justify" that and consider it unaligned. But maybe here is an approach: To make it really evil and not merely unaligned she would have to take joy taking these souls, torture them and use them for more nefarious purposes. Nerull probably did. But she just sees it has her right as the goddess of death that was taken away from her. She sees it as a way to gain power or influence. She might kill souls, but killing souls is the godly equivalent of killing people. She grants utter oblivion, but doesn't inflict suffering. It means the end to all pain or regret the soul of a dead might still feel.

Or maybe the difference is simply - yeah, she might want to do it, but she doesn't. You only become evil if you actually act evil, and she simply does not.

 

[Klaus]

I knew the official article would go for an ambition-driven Raven Queen, lowering her to the level of deities like Vecna and Orcus, which is why I chose to go ahead and write the article I proposed for Dragon a while ago. It can be downloaded here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...rogress-lady-crows-updated-2.html#post4956983

 

[Pour]

I really love the artwork in this article. Stat blocks are always nice, but why can't we get the stats of The Raven Queen herself, or at least an exarch? I appreciate that they included several different cults which reflect a nice range, but my favorite is probably the loyalists focused on reestablishing Nerull, though is it me or do they sound like that have little to no chance...

 

[Nahat Anoj]

Apparently we're no longer going with the Elf-Eladrin-Drow split way back in the mists of ancient ancient time if the Raven Queen is supposedly sending her minions to help Corellon with fighting against Lolth(Pfft like he needs it). Bizzare. Not fond of it.

The rift between Lolth and Corellon seems to have happened after the creation of the world, but before the war with Khala (which came at the end of the Dawn War). So the split seems to have happened at some point during the Dawn Age, which appears to be a vast span of time.

And it makes sense to me that if Lolth is roughly the same strength as Corellon they might have been in a stalemate. The RQ tipped the scales in Corellon's favor.

Now they need to do one on Corellon.

I agree. And one on Lolth. I hope with Lolth's article that they'll give her stats. If the Spider Queen had a domain or two taken from her, it stands to reason that she might be weaker than she was in previous ages and therefore within the reach of a group of level 30 adventurers. In addition, her focus on the Abyss could be a reckless bid to reclaim her former power. I guess it depends on whether or not Lolth became tainted by the Abyss before or after her war with Corellon.

I'm still getting rather an evil-ish vibe from her, probably due to the whole souls bit. Messing with souls is, to me, Evil, period.

Yeah, she's definitely on the evil side of Unaligned, more so than I thought she would be when I was reading the stuff in the preview books.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I really love the artwork in this article. Stat blocks are always nice, but why can't we get the stats of The Raven Queen herself, or at least an exarch? I appreciate that they included several different cults which reflect a nice range, but my favorite is probably the loyalists focused on reestablishing Nerull, though is it me or do they sound like that have little to no chance...

That is not dead which can eternal lie.
And with strange aeons even death may die.

 

[Klaus]

That is not dead which can eternal lie.
And with strange aeons even death may die.

Maybe if the Nerull loyalists manage to harness power from the Far Realm into Nerull's floating corpse, under the guidance of the oldest alhoon...


:evil:

 

[Shroomy]

I agree. And one on Lolth. I hope with Lolth's article that they'll give her stats. If the Spider Queen had a domain or two taken from her, it stands to reason that she might be weaker than she was in previous ages and therefore within the reach of a group of level 30 adventurers. In addition, her focus on the Abyss could be a reckless bid to reclaim her former power. I guess it depends on whether or not Lolth became tainted by the Abyss before or after her war with Corellon.

I believe Lloth will be in MM3. At least, she's on the cover.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Apparently we're no longer going with the Elf-Eladrin-Drow split way back in the mists of ancient ancient time if the Raven Queen is supposedly sending her minions to help Corellon with fighting against Lolth(Pfft like he needs it). Bizzare. Not fond of it.

IMC I've already gone with the idea of time on the astral being fuzzy and when it applies to the gods, not exactly opperating in a linear fashion so it still works for me,