Starwars D20 Variations/House Rules?

[Lobo Lurker]

Hi All,

I was going to stick this in DnDChick's thread below... but then I thought that it might be better not to highjack other people's threads (I hate it when that happens to me).

Anyhow, I was wondering if any of you had any ideas as to how one might punch up the non Jedi classes in StarWars D20. Its not that I think they're weak (well... I think some are) but some (like the Fringer, which I can see as a variation on the Scout class.) seem to lack direction and others (Tech Specialist, I'm looking at you!) would seem to be better as system improvements rather than class abilities.

Starwars D20 (like any other D20 game, eh?) is a classed based system. Its not fun when you're leveling your character and you don't 'get' anything for your level up. For the Jedi classes, its not so bad as they either get feats or new abilities. At the very minimum they can improve thier force skills.

But for the non-Jedi classes things are pretty bland. I'm of the mind that EVERY class should get SOMETHING (even if it's insignificant) at level-up.

Another thought I had was to balance the game more in favor of the non-force using classes. In my opinion (and I know my opinion is not corroborated by the 6 movies), a level 15 Scoundrel should be able to take out a level 9 Jedi w/out too many problems. I'm not totally convinced of this, however... I'm mainly just looking for good reasons that the non-force users would want to not play a force using class.

Lastly, has anyone come up with any Force Feats to punch up the Force Adept? Thier class abilities are 'weaker' than the Jedi abilities and they get fewer of them. As well, they can't take the more advanced force feats either (Knight Mind, Master Mind, etc...).

Thoughts? Opinions? Am I completely daft? (okay, don't answer that last one).

 

[Ranger REG]

Gawd. I hate subliminal posting.

Instead of the standard multifire and autofire in Star Wars, use d20 Modern firearms attack rules.

 

[wingsandsword]

I would leave the classes alone. Yes

Here is the big dirty secret: Game Balance isn't everything in Star Wars. The game culture of 3.x D&D may be based on the idea that balance comes first and everything must be built on a balanced system, but in Star Wars representing the setting comes first (IMO). Jedi and force users are powerful, and they should be. D&D and Star Wars are different games, and should be approached with somewhat different philosophies.

Jedi and other force users aren't invincible, even the movies showed that: A Jedi Master will fall to a sustained hail of automatic weapons fire by seasoned troops. The game represents this well: Critical hits really suck to be on the recieving end of. You want to limit the power of Jedi in your game? Do it through the setting, any time after the beginning of the Purge to the fall of the Empire it is very dangerous and no matter how powerful the Jedi. Jedi during the Old Republic are highly accountable to their Order, during the early New Republic, Jedi can go largely unchecked but there are also a lot of Dark Jedi running around to challenge the. During the New Jedi Order there are the Yuuzhan Vong which are immune & invisible to the Force (until the very end of the war) and a lot of anti-Jedi vigilantes.

Now, if you're interested in my own house rules:
1. Force Sensitive must be taken at 1st level. It's a matter of inborn potential, not something you learn or just suddenly pick up.
2. Inspire Confidence from the OCR is used and not the RCR version.
Frightful Presence requires a 13+ Charisma and not 15+. Darth Vader has a 13 Charisma and is the textbook case of that feat.
3. Rebellion Era Jedi rules (no new 1st level Jedi, no new Jedi Consulars) goes into affect immediately after Order 66, even though "Rebellion Era" won't begin for 18 years. No Jedi Order and an active purge means Rebellion Era rules (I think a lot of the "Era" distinctions are clumsy at best).
4. A Jedi must have completed their own lightsaber, as well as faced some significant personal ordeal (facing a darksider, accomplishing something major on their own without teammates), and had at least some instruction after 1st level from a Jedi Knight or Master, to take 7th Jedi level or above and become a Knight.
5. Weapon Finesse uses the D&D 3.5 concept that it works for all finesseable weapons, not just one.

 

[kenobi65]

Here is the big dirty secret: Game Balance isn't everything in Star Wars. The game culture of 3.x D&D may be based on the idea that balance comes first and everything must be built on a balanced system, but in Star Wars representing the setting comes first (IMO). Jedi and force users are powerful, and they should be. D&D and Star Wars are different games, and should be approached with somewhat different philosophies.

The thing I love about this particular topic:
- If you play SWRPG, and you play a non-Jedi, you probably feel that Jedi are overpowered (since your basis of comparision is likely the other PC classes)
- If you play SWRPG, and you play a Jedi, you probably feel that Jedi are underpowered (since your basis of comparison is likely the movies, or the KotOR video games)

So, that must mean that Jedi are appropriately balanced, eh?

 

[Lobo Lurker]

Okay, so leaving the force users alone for the moment, any suggestions on how to punch up the non-force users (not for balance reasons, for player fun reasons)? I'm referring to my expressed desire (above) for each class to get 'something' at everything level other than thier skill points, Attack/Defense, & Save increases.

 

[AmorphousBlob]

Okay, so leaving the force users alone for the moment, any suggestions on how to punch up the non-force users (not for balance reasons, for player fun reasons)? I'm referring to my expressed desire (above) for each class to get 'something' at everything level other than thier skill points, Attack/Defense, & Save increases.

I think something that needs to be asked first is, have you ever actually played the game? Not that I'm implying you haven't, but if that is the case, there may be a number of things you're not taking into account. For example, Force-users have to split their skill points up between their Force skills and non-Force skills. Another thing to take into account is that using the Force requires the sacrifice of vitality points, effectively like bleeding yourself in DnD.

 

[Ranger REG]

The game culture of 3.x D&D may be based on the idea that balance comes first...

Hehehe. Even I couldn't say that with a straight face.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Do you have the OCR or the RCR? One of the things the RCR did which was excellent was filled in lots of 'blank' levels with class abilities for most of the classes. Since you mention the tech specialist I guess you are on the RCR. You would have been horrified by the OCR then!

The SWd20 campaign that I play in at the moment has the Scout and the Soldier as far more fearsome combatants than the three Jedi. The scout with his great Dex, blaster rifle and rapid shot feat can do more damage, more frequently and with greater accuracy than any of the Jedi. The wookie soldier with the vibroaxe and cleave is a holy terror in melee. We're 4th or 5th level now, and in their specialty the non-force classes leave the jedi in the dust. The only place the jedi win out is in their versatility due to the force.

A couple of PCs have died in the campaign so far and both of them were replaced with non-force users, so we are not finding things too tough.

Our few house rules are actually to help the jedi(!). Except that we use the rockin' 'inspire confidence' rules from the OCR rather than the uninspired 'inspire confidence' rules from the RCR - bardic inspire with the serial number filed off. The OCR method was far, far superior in both flavour and effect.

Cheers

 

[Khorod]

1. Force Sensitive must be taken at 1st level. It's a matter of inborn potential, not something you learn or just suddenly pick up

This is already RAW. It's really annoying, particularly if you don't start with a force-class for rp reasons. But it is exactly appropriate to the setting.

The Skywalker ability allows them to cheat this rule, essentially letting them get Force-Sensitive from the first Force-User class they take, whenever they take it. I think that's a rather weak power for the Vurgence Family, but whatever. I'd have thought they'd get something like... oh... spend Force Points as though 5 levels higher.

Frightful Presence requires a 13+ Charisma and not 15+. Darth Vader has a 13 Charisma and is the textbook case of that feat.

I don't know... the 15 Charisma is meant to represent the necessary potentcy of your raw charisma. What about giving Vader a +2 bonus to Charisma instead of house-ruling a feat down for him?

 

[Bagpuss]

Okay, so leaving the force users alone for the moment, any suggestions on how to punch up the non-force users (not for balance reasons, for player fun reasons)? I'm referring to my expressed desire (above) for each class to get 'something' at everything level other than thier skill points, Attack/Defense, & Save increases.

I thought most did (at least on most levels) with the revised rules, which ones have noticable gaps?