[Star-Wars Saga Edition] Martial Arts and other changes.

ShaggySpellsword

First Post
I love the system, but there are elements to the system that make me unhappy...this is why I tinker. I want to know your opinions on the changes I am considering making consideirng Martial Arts and other related feats.

Problem: Martial Arts PCs do little meaningful damage but can easily be tweaked into abusively unhittable characters. A PC who wishes to focus on Martial Arts can basically very slowly witttle someone down in HP and not be hit. This is not fun for the player because his lightsaber and blaster wielding friends show up and kill his bad-guy because he takes too long.

Possible design solutions: We could make the damage ramp bigger by adding extra dice, but do we want Unarmed Strikes to be outdamaging or even-damaging blasters and lightsabers? I don't. I also don't want martial arts abusable as a Reflex Defense buff. That leaves martial arts as being good for something OTHER than defense and/or damage. Traditionally, unarmed disciplines have been focused towards fast and convienient non-lethal attacks that quickly incapacitate opponents. This is where I want to go.

Martial Arts 1: As is.

Martial Arts 2: Damage die type increases as usual. No bonus to Reflex Defense. Instead, add: "You may make an unarmed Stun attack against an opponent. Whe making a Stun attack, treat your attack just as if it were a blaster set on stun for the purposes of adjudicating damage and the number or steps an opponent moves down the condition track. When making a stun attack, you deal an extra die of damage."

Martial Arts 3: Damage die type increases as usual. No bonus to Reflex Defense. Instead, add: "You may treat your unarmed attacks as 2-handed weapons or light weapons. You may choose which type of wepaon your unarmed attack is at the beginning of your turn. When your unarmed atack counts as a 2-handed weapon, you deal double your strength bonus to damage as normal for 2-handed weapons."


Reasoning: This makes unarmed combat good at Reflex defense without the abusable stacking. This makes martial artists able to take enemy combatants out of fights quickly, but without doing sick amounts of damage. This makes their combat "niche" rapid non-lethal removal of enemies from combat. I say that is a good thing. What do you think?

Related problem: Even with this change, Dodge is far inferior to Martial Arts 1 and Improved Defenses. I want to make it sexy.

Dodge: As a swift action, you can actively dodge out of the way of incoming attacks, gaining a +2 bonus to your Reflex Defense until the start of your next turn. You don't gain the bonus to Reflex Defense if you are flat-footed or otherwise unaware of the incoming attack.

Reasoning Now dodge is something you choose to do, and you get a BIG benefit from it. It does take up a valuable resource (your swift action for the round). I based this on Lightsaber Defense. It could be considered a little better, considering the fact that you don't need a lightsaber out to do it, but you can only take it once, and it still requires a high enough Dexterity score to take. What do you think?
 

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I don't have any opinion on Martial Arts because no one uses it in my games but here is what I did for Dodge to make it a good feat.

Once per game session you may choose to have an attack miss you, if the attack is a critical hit it is reduced to a normal hit.

It seems to be popular but not overly so.
 

Feature, not a bug. Advanced martial artists in Star Wars are hard to hit. As for abusable, I fail to see how +1 per feat comes anywhere near Armor Specialist, Melee Defense + Acrobatic Attack, etc.
 

It may be a feature, but it makes for characters who are unfun for everyone involved. They can't be hit and they can't do much of anything to anyone with their actual unarmed attacks. They can hit, but nothing meaningful happens when they do.

Taking away the Reflex defense bonus gives some room for boosting other abilities.
 

I figured that unarmed characters would be backing up their Martial Arts feats (which are admitedly poor damage) up with Grab/Trip and the follow ups. Martial Artists hard to hit and inflict status effects when they hit. Sure, they're still not doing all that much damage, but it's still far more useful in a team context.
 

ShaggySpellsword said:
It may be a feature, but it makes for characters who are unfun for everyone involved. They can't be hit and they can't do much of anything to anyone with their actual unarmed attacks. They can hit, but nothing meaningful happens when they do.

Taking away the Reflex defense bonus gives some room for boosting other abilities.

Can't be hit? I just don't understand. +3 to hit (all three feats) is not much of a boost... and I've never seen a build like that outside of "force warrior" type characters. Melee Defense is much stronger for that tactic, and armor talents beat everything else hands down.

As for your proposed changes... if you like berserk wookiees tearing wampas and battledroids in half with their bare hands, great, but that actually has the potential for being broken. Trading out +1 Reflexes for potentially +5 damage or more hardly seems like a move in the balanced direction.

Unhittable? I think you mean something more like this:

Male Human Soldier 7/Elite Trooper 1
Force Points 6
Str 14, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 10.
Fortitude 27, Reflex 27, Will 19
Hit points 76
BAB +8, melee +10, ranged 10
Skills: Endurance +10, Initiative +11, Knowledge (tactics) +10, Perception +10, Mechanics
Feats: Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Weapon Proficiency (simple, pistols, rifles, advanced melee weapons), Dual Weapon Mastery I, Weapon Focus (advanced melee weapons), Point Blank Shot, Martial Arts I, Rapid Strike, Quick Draw
Talents: Armored Defense, Improved Armored Defense, Weapon Specialization (advanced melee weapons), Devastating Attack (advanced melee weapons), Greater Weapon Focus (advanced melee weapons)
Special abilities: delay damage
Gear: battle armor, two vibroblades, heavy blaster pistol

Attacks
Vibroblade +12 (2d6+8) or
Vibroblade +7/+7 (2d6+8) or
Vibroblade +10 (3d6+8) or
Vibroblade +5/+5 (3d6+8) or
Heavy blaster pistol +10 (3d8+4)
 

My favorite dodge fix:

Spend a force point as a reaction to gain a bonus to reflex defense against one attack. This bonus is equal to the normal bonus they would receive when modifying an attack roll or check. A character may choose to spend the force point even after he knowsthe result of the attack roll against him, but must spend it before damage is determined.
 

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