Stacking Eladrin Boots and two Eladrin Rings of Passage

Hazard_53188

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Does the property for Eladrin Boots stack with the property for an Eladrin Ring of Passage? Would two Eladrin Rings of Passage stack?

Eladrin Boots property: Add 2 to the maximum range of any teleport you make (other than that provided by these boots).

Eladrin Ring of Passage property: When you teleport, increase the distance of your teleport by 1. If you are an eladrin, increase the distance of your teleport by 2.


I know that bonuses of the same type do not stack but untyped bonuses do stack. These sound like untyped bonuses. However, I seem to recall a rule that bonuses from the same source do not stack (and two of the same ring seem like the same source) but I can't remember if or where I saw that. Did I make that up or can you point me at it?

Thanks.
 

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Normally bonuses are all of the type '+N type bonus to something'. I wouldn't consider these to be bonuses at all, just benefits. The way I read them the boots add 2 to the distance you CAN teleport, the rings add 2 to the distance you actually DO teleport. So if you can teleport 6 and then the boots make that teleport 8 and the rings each add 2 to the distance you teleport you end up with a teleport 12 and it seems perfectly legal to me.

Also I just don't see why it would be a problem. It rapidly gets crazy to stack defense or to-hit bonuses, but a teleport 12 is not going to cause much problem.
 

I'd say the Ring and the Boots stack just fine, but as the exact same enchantment exists on both rings, I'd say that falls into the 'two bonuses of the same type not stacking' category. But that's just my opinion.
 

Normally bonuses are all of the type '+N type bonus to something'. I wouldn't consider these to be bonuses at all, just benefits. The way I read them the boots add 2 to the distance you CAN teleport, the rings add 2 to the distance you actually DO teleport. So if you can teleport 6 and then the boots make that teleport 8 and the rings each add 2 to the distance you teleport you end up with a teleport 12 and it seems perfectly legal to me.

Also I just don't see why it would be a problem. It rapidly gets crazy to stack defense or to-hit bonuses, but a teleport 12 is not going to cause much problem.

Exactly, rules as worded the items aren't provided "bonuses", even though they are bonuses.

It's still less confusing than 3e grappling.
 

I'd say the Ring and the Boots stack just fine, but as the exact same enchantment exists on both rings, I'd say that falls into the 'two bonuses of the same type not stacking' category. But that's just my opinion.

That would be my instinct as well.

As for balance, the only abusive issue I've seen with this is the Arcane Wayfarer PP, which gets a speed teleport 2 at 16th level. Combining all these effects give an eladrin a huge teleport speed usable constantly.
 


That would be my instinct as well.

As for balance, the only abusive issue I've seen with this is the Arcane Wayfarer PP, which gets a speed teleport 2 at 16th level. Combining all these effects give an eladrin a huge teleport speed usable constantly.

See:

Warlock U10: Ethereal Sidestep. (then you go slasher at paragon, of course). At will teleport 1.

That said, instinct or no, similar bonuses -do- stack. Only bonuses that are one of the following don't stack:
1. Typed bonuses of the same type boosting the same thing (e.g. a feat bonus to speed, another feat bonus to speed).
2. Untyped bonuses From the same-named game element (eg, the same bonus from the same element).

Multiple bonuses to the same thing from -different- sources always stack -- like, say, having a ring that boosts your teleport speed and some boots that also boost your teleport speed. Frankly, this isn't a big deal; this is what these things are supposed to do, and having the ability to teleport yourself very large distance is exactly the opposite of game breaking.

It's only when you can teleport -enemies- an arbitrary distance that this can get abusive (as against non-flying enemies and outside, an arbitrarily large teleport is a save or die). So the items to watch are Gloves of Dimensional Repulsion (+2 to hostile teleports), Ring of Retreat (+1 to all teleport powers), and ring of calling (give it to your allies, then stand adjacent to them for a +4 to teleport powers). Even there, you're adding an extra 3.5d10 to hostile teleport powers for 3 paragon items (so hostile teleport dpr += 5.5*.25 (hit chance * save failing chance, keeping in mind that elites and solos make this worse) * 3.5 = 4.8 -- which is nifty if you're making hostile teleports as your main attack form, but not game breaking for three stacked items in decent slots.

Of course, the truly ugly thing you can do with teleports has nothing to do with increasing how big your teleports are (though getting at will teleports up to at least size 2 for that build is a must), and everything to do with making sure you teleport as many times a turn as possible combined with a slasher feature (auto damage adjacent foes on a teleport). Oh, and adding damage types to that feature and making foes vulnerable to them, of course (Long Night Scion has a leg up here, as they start with an excellent damage type on their slashing already). Planestrider boots to make every teleport 2 teleports, at will teleports from Etherial Sidestep; a minor action teleport if you can get one (hmm. aside from shifty, what about a druid multiclass? Wield a staff of the traveller, Agile Form, and wear something that boosts teleport size (Eladrin ring of passage or whatever) and you're making a minor action teleport 2 (split into two teleports) every turn, in addition to the teleports you get from your attacks (all of which shift or teleport you) and your move action (always a teleport). Oh, and for a feat, that becomes a free action 1/turn slash, and you can find something else to do with your minor actions. don't think I've seen a druid slasher build, actually; might be a fun exercise).
 

I agree with the thought that they should stack; this isn't game breaking. Giving up both of your ring slots to gain more teleport can be very useful on occasion, but doesn't break things at all.

In my current campaign, I have an eladrin bard/warlock who has this sort of build; he can fey-step at will for 6 squares, or go up to 10 with certain powers. And so far, it hasn't been abusive at all. The investment he made for such a cool skill definitely offsets the advantages.

And don't forget to remember the line of sight rules for teleporting!
 

I know that bonuses of the same type do not stack but untyped bonuses do stack. These sound like untyped bonuses. However, I seem to recall a rule that bonuses from the same source do not stack (and two of the same ring seem like the same source) but I can't remember if or where I saw that. Did I make that up or can you point me at it?
The definition for untyped bonuses has been revised in the most recent rules update. It now says that unnamed bonuses stack unless they result from the same named game element (IIRC).
They give an example of two warlords using the same power to grant a bonus to an ally.

In other words: boots & a single ring stack, the two rings don't stack.
 

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