Pathfinder 1E Spirit Shaman in Pathfinder?
- Thread starter Werebat
- Start date
Ahnehnois
First Post
Given that Turn Undead was Pathfinderized into the more generic Channel Energy, my big question would be whether the Chastise Spirits should be similarly expanded. My default answer is no, because the spirit shaman class is more naturally focused than the cleric, but it's worth thinking about.
The other fundamental question is whether the operational definition of "spirit" works for Pathfinder. I'd say it does-they didn't do much with creature types. For the class to be worth playing, the DM needs to use spirits regularly.
Beyond that, the attack bonus and HD match up, the saves and skills and spells port over fine. I didn't see any issues with the class abilities skimming them over, and it does have a 20th level capstone The only thing to fix is the four "dead levels". I wouldn't add in anything terribly powerful; maybe skill bonuses or divination-type abilities, perhaps tied to the spirit guide.
The other fundamental question is whether the operational definition of "spirit" works for Pathfinder. I'd say it does-they didn't do much with creature types. For the class to be worth playing, the DM needs to use spirits regularly.
Beyond that, the attack bonus and HD match up, the saves and skills and spells port over fine. I didn't see any issues with the class abilities skimming them over, and it does have a 20th level capstone The only thing to fix is the four "dead levels". I wouldn't add in anything terribly powerful; maybe skill bonuses or divination-type abilities, perhaps tied to the spirit guide.
Werebat
Explorer
I'm thinking the Spirit Shaman would be VERY useful in the Kingmaker AP...
Since my game will be E8, I won't be as concerned about the high level stuff, though I might want to create a capstone ability of sorts for level 8. Skill bonii, divination type abilities... OK, I can give it a think. Anyone else?
Thanks!
Since my game will be E8, I won't be as concerned about the high level stuff, though I might want to create a capstone ability of sorts for level 8. Skill bonii, divination type abilities... OK, I can give it a think. Anyone else?
Thanks!
Werebat
Explorer
I can share what I'll be using in my own game:
E8 General
Characters progress in level as normal until reaching 8th level, at which point a bonus feat can be chosen for every 2500 experience points earned. The character must still be able to meet the requirements of these feats in order to take them.
Characters also gain one hit point for every 2500 experience points earned after 8th level (two hit points if their BAB is +8), as well as one skill point. Finally, they gain a +1 bonus to hit with all attacks for every five feats earned after 8th level.
There will be no gestalting, nor will there be any capstone feats. With a full eight levels, the vast majority of prestige classes are open to most characters, including those intended to bring multiclass characters in line with their single-classes compatriots (for example, the Arcane Trickster).
Magic Items
While characters are limited to spells of 4th level maximum, the Pathfinder item creation rules technically allow for the creation of most magic items requiring spells that a character does not have access to. Refer to the section on "Magic Item Creation" on page 548 in the Pathfinder Core Rules for more details. Note also that I have lowered the spellcaster level requirements to qualify for the feats Craft Rod and Craft Staff to 8th level.
All items, regardless of prerequisites, may be found for purchase in towns and other communities; take note, however, that the rules for purchasing magic items in Pathfinder are very different from 3.5 (see Pathfinder Core Rules, page 460, "Purchasing Magic Items").
As usual, I encourage players to let me know about any items they may really want their characters to find.
Conviction Points
In addition to thier normal uses, Conviction Points may be used to power metamagic feats. As a swift action, you may spend one or more Conviction Points in order to imbue a spell you cast with the power of any metamagic feat you know. For every level the spell would be adjusted upwards in order to be imbued with the metamagic feat, you must spend one Conviction Point.
New E8 Feats:
Ability Boost (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 8th level.
Benefit: Choose an ability. You gain a permanent +1 bonus to that ability.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat it applies to another ability.
Craft Rod, Craft Staff (Item Creation)
Prerequisite: These aren't new feats at all, but in E8 their prerequisite caster levels are reduced to 8th.
Expanded Caster Stamina (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 8th level.
Benefit: You gain one or more new spell slots, with spell levels totaling to four. Treat a 0th-level spell slot as one half a level. Thus, an eighth-level wizard could gain one 4th level spell slot, or two 2nd level spell slots, and one 3rd and one 1st level spell slots, etc. This feat cannot provide spell slots of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it you gain more spell slots. An artificer can take the feat to gain extra infusion slots instead of spell slots.
Expanded Spell Knowledge (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 8th level.
Benefit: You learn one or more new spells known, with spell levels totaling to four. Treat a new 0th-level spell as having one half a level. Thus, an eighth-level sorcerer could learn one new 4th level spell, or two new 2nd level spells, or one new 3rd and one new 1st level spells, etc. This feat cannot provide spells known of a level higher than you can already cast.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you take it you learn more new spells.
Heroic Spirit (General)
Benefit: Your Conviction point pool per session is raised to 7. You still gain only 6 points of Conviction for raising your Death Flag.
(Note: This feat replaces the Heroic Spirit feat from the ECS)
Master of Metamagic (Metamagic)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 8th level.
Benefit: You gain a pool of three Metamagic Points, which function as Conviction Points for the purpose of imbuing your spells with metamagic. These Metamagic Points may be used alone or in combination with Conviction Points for this purpose. Your pool of Metamagic Points replenishes itself at the start of every gaming session, just like your pool of Conviction Points. You can take this feat more than once; every time you take it, you add three to your pool of Metamagic Points.
Swift Strikes (General)
Prerequisite: This feat can only be taken as a bonus feat after 8th level.
Benefit: When making a full attack, you may spend a swift action and a Conviction point to make one extra attack at your full BAB. You may only do this once per round.
Capstone Abilities:
Certain classes need a little "shot in the arm" in order to remain competitive in an E8 game. These classes gain the following abilities on reaching 8th level; no expenditure of feats is required:
Bard: At 8th level, the Bard gains the Inspire Greatness ability they would not ordinarily gain until 9th level.
Fighter: At 8th level, the Fighter gains the Weapon Training 2 ability. In addition, the bonus fighter feat gained at 8th level may include any bonus fighter feat requiring up to 12th level in the Fighter class and/or a +12 BAB, so long as all other requirements are met.
Monk: At 8th level, the Monk gains the Pounce ability.
Paladin: At 8th level, the Paladin gains a new mercy along with access to the mercies she would not ordinarily gain access to until 9th level
Ranger: At 8th level, the Ranger gains the Evasion ability.
Sorcerer: At 8th level, Sorcerers gain the Bloodline Power and Bloodline Spell they would not ordinarily gain until 9th level.
Spirit Shaman: At 8th level, the Spirit Shaman gains the Spirit Form ability, which is ordinarily not gained until 9th level.
Werebat
Explorer
So I've decided to shuffle Ghost Form from 9th level to 8th level, to eliminate the dead level at 8th. Given that I'm running an E8 campaign, this is all I need to do to eliminate dead levels.
I'm still not sure the Spirit Shaman is really competitive with, say, the druid or the cleric. I'm inclined to give them one more significant ability. I was contemplating upgrading their spirit guide to a telthor, making it something akin to a druidic animal companion. Maybe as the ranger, with class level -3 as the shaman's effective druid level, or maybe granting the spirit guide the ability to manifest as a telthor for a certain amount of time per day (making this essentially a free variant summon monster ability).
Any ideas?
Edit -- scratch the telthor idea, I think it would just encourage optimization and choosing only good combat animals as spirit guides. Maybe allowing the spirit guide to cast spells for the spirit shaman a certain number of times per day? Effectively granting Quicken Spell to a class that would otherwise have some difficulty with metamagic.
I'm still not sure the Spirit Shaman is really competitive with, say, the druid or the cleric. I'm inclined to give them one more significant ability. I was contemplating upgrading their spirit guide to a telthor, making it something akin to a druidic animal companion. Maybe as the ranger, with class level -3 as the shaman's effective druid level, or maybe granting the spirit guide the ability to manifest as a telthor for a certain amount of time per day (making this essentially a free variant summon monster ability).
Any ideas?
Edit -- scratch the telthor idea, I think it would just encourage optimization and choosing only good combat animals as spirit guides. Maybe allowing the spirit guide to cast spells for the spirit shaman a certain number of times per day? Effectively granting Quicken Spell to a class that would otherwise have some difficulty with metamagic.
Ahnehnois
First Post
The Spirit Shaman might be a bit weaker than the cleric or druid. That said, the cleric and druid, even in PF, are still generally acknowledged as the most powerful classes. Also, if you're running a campaign that makes significant use of spirits, I would say the shaman is more than powerful enough as is.
Like I said, if you were to add anything, I'd add some kind of talking with spirits divination ability or a similarly themed insight bonus to something; I don't think the class needs a big combat boost. All IMO.
Like I said, if you were to add anything, I'd add some kind of talking with spirits divination ability or a similarly themed insight bonus to something; I don't think the class needs a big combat boost. All IMO.
Werebat
Explorer
I had a couple of ideas for Spirit Shaman that I think would really bring it into line with the druid, which it most closely resembles. These changes make the Spirit Shaman a versatile and customizable casting class that can fill many roles, from healing to buffing and blasting, depending on what the player wants them to be able to do.
Here goes:
In addition to the usual Spirit Shaman powers listed in the description starting on page 14 of Complete Divine, Spirit Shamans will also gain the following to keep them more in line with Pathfinder core classes:
* Spell bonus for high Charisma applies to number of spells retrieved per day
* Spirit Form ability is gained at 8th level instead of 9th level
* The Spirit Shaman may use the Expanded Spell Knowledge feat to add one or more spells from the cleric and/or sorcerer lists to the list of spells he can retrieve per day. For example, he could add Cure Critical Wounds (4th level), or Fly (3rd level) and Magic Missile (1st). These spells are not automatically retrieved, but the Spirit Shaman can choose to retrieve them as if they were on the druid spell list.
* A Spirit Shaman's spirit guide comes with a list of spells, one for each spell level. These spells are automatically retrieved for the Spirit Shaman every day, in addition to his usual allotment of retrieved spells. The Spirit Shaman's player can work with the DM to come up with a suitable list for his spirit guide; these spells can be from the druid, cleric, or sorcerer spell lists and should be roughly thematic to the type of spirit guide chosen.
What do you think?
Here goes:
In addition to the usual Spirit Shaman powers listed in the description starting on page 14 of Complete Divine, Spirit Shamans will also gain the following to keep them more in line with Pathfinder core classes:
* Spell bonus for high Charisma applies to number of spells retrieved per day
* Spirit Form ability is gained at 8th level instead of 9th level
* The Spirit Shaman may use the Expanded Spell Knowledge feat to add one or more spells from the cleric and/or sorcerer lists to the list of spells he can retrieve per day. For example, he could add Cure Critical Wounds (4th level), or Fly (3rd level) and Magic Missile (1st). These spells are not automatically retrieved, but the Spirit Shaman can choose to retrieve them as if they were on the druid spell list.
* A Spirit Shaman's spirit guide comes with a list of spells, one for each spell level. These spells are automatically retrieved for the Spirit Shaman every day, in addition to his usual allotment of retrieved spells. The Spirit Shaman's player can work with the DM to come up with a suitable list for his spirit guide; these spells can be from the druid, cleric, or sorcerer spell lists and should be roughly thematic to the type of spirit guide chosen.
What do you think?
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