Spiked Gauntlet, Does it still leave your hand free.

[Shallown]

Title says it all. I know it seems to make logical sense that a spiked gauntlet would leave your hand free to wield other weapons but since It is listed as a weapon in and of it self and as far as I can tell is not necessarily part of spiked armor since it is listed separately can you wield another weapon with it.

I am looking for actual Rules quotes on this one not logical extrapolations.

Thanks

Later

 

[frankthedm]

Sorry logic prevails

Gauntlet
This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets.

Gauntlet, Spiked
Your opponent cannot use a disarm action to disarm you of spiked gauntlets. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. An attack with a spiked gauntlet is considered an armed attack.

 

[Sejs]

I am looking for actual Rules quotes on this one not logical extrapolations.

And just as an aside, why did you bold "metal glove", Frank?

 

[Shallown]

Well the picture may sway the arguement but the difference in Gauntlet and spiked gauntlet is one is listed as an unarmed attack and the other a Light weapon. By becoming a weapon does it preclude its ability to operate as a gauntlet despite its name. Meaning Now that is a light weapon is it still flexible enough, light enough etc to be able to hold things.

later

Logic is never a defense in D&D.

 

[Pinotage]

I've always assumed you could still use other weapons with it, but I don't believe it's actually state anywhere that it is the case.

Pinotage

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

In franks post, the first picture shows 2 gauntlets in the top left, the furthest left is a gauntlet, the right one is a spiked gauntlet. They are both the same, except small spikes are not put on the gauntlet enabling leathal damage AND making it an armed attack

The basic flexability of the gauntlet is the same, so to a trained warrior (one who can wield all wepaons, and wear all armour) it would be perfectly feasable for him to wear spiked gauntlets and use a weapon.

If however, your gauntlets were spiked like the seocnd picture (is that shredder?) then I would rule you cant wear them and wield a weapon, as the claws would hinder the free movement of the weapon. Also, gauntlets similar to the second picture were also in the Sword and Fist source book as an exotic weapon, doing something like 1d6 (17-20x2) they were quite ridiculous in the hands (pardon the pun) of a warrior.

As for the rules, spiked gauntlets appear in the armour table, and as putting spikes on your armour makes your amrour into a weapon for grapples, its still armour.

So as the spiked gauntlet appears in the armour list as well as the weapons list, it is perfectly feasible to wear spiked gauntlets AND wield a weapon. But not claws I think.

Feegle Out

 

[frankthedm]

If however, your gauntlets were spiked like the seocnd picture (is that shredder?) then I would rule you cant wear them and wield a weapon, as the claws would hinder the free movement of the weapon.

yea, the 2003 series Shredder.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/TMNTShredder2003.jpg

(you don't want to see what oroku saki would have looked like if warner animation had gotten ahold of him.) The blade are kinda long, but don't have a katar like grip like these http://www.planetdiablo.com/expansiond2/gallery/renderings/assassin_sm.jpg so this image below might be better for a saner example of a spiked gauntlet.

The Lambton Worm's foe does not usually have spiked gauntlets, otherwise i would have used that image.

 

[Shallown]

Nac,
I don't see spiked gauntlets on the armor table in the srd just spiked armor which has its own set of rules.

The picture is just a picture and not really part of the rules.

I was just wondering if there was text that actually said a weapon could be wielded in a spiked gauntlet hand and still use the spiked gauntlet.

Thanks

Frank I prefer the orginal TMNT which is old school. The Tv show killed that flavor for me. I don't consider them the same thing any more.

Later

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

Nac,
I don't see spiked gauntlets on the armor table in the srd just spiked armor which has its own set of rules.

It doesnt hmm? Then I can see where it might become a problem. Because it then comes down to personal interpretation, I say you can wield a weapon, others might say you cant.

As far as I know, adding spikes to a metal gauntlet to make it a spiked gauntlet should still enable it to be used as a gauntlet, otherwise, if you cant use that hand for anything, your really hampering yourself, sure you cant be disarmed, but you cant sheath the gauntlet and do something else wiht your hands either. In fact with 2 spiked gauntlets, you may be unable to remove them without help.

What always bothered me was that a metal gauntlet does lethal damage, but is stil unarmed, but a spiked gauntlet is armed. I would have though having great big metal gloves on would enable you to make an armed attack, its almost a pair of brass knuckles in iteself

Feegle Out

 

[Shallown]

I agree NAc. I know our group already ruled it as something you can wield weapons with I was just wondering if it actually said anywhere that it was anything other than a normal weapon which I would assume means you can't use it and another weapon in the same hand. I know most our fighters use it as that close in, grapple weapon and archers use it so they can be armed when closed in on.

If you have martial weapons I guess the wise thing is to get spiked armor and make it easy while leaving the spiked guantlet to the simple weapon users.

Another thing to think about since some armors come with gauntlets are they automatically spiked when the armor is, allowing the simple weapon users (thinking mostly clerics here) to use that spiked gauntlet, since they are not being proficient in spiked armor which is a martial weapon. and if so do you use the 1d4 for spiked gauntlet or the 1d6 for spiked armor.

Later