Spiked Chain - AKA "The Cheese Whip"

[Greenfield]

Lots of people have problems with the spiked chain, and there is a lot to consider.

A reach weapon that can also attack close in.
Weapon Finesse with a two handed weapon.
Improved Trip using the weapon.
Improved Disarm, with a +2 to the check.

On the down side, it's a two handed weapon that does weenie damage (2 D4), and Exotic to boot.

So, what would you do to fix this thing?

One proposal would be to make it two different weapons: Create a light and a heavy version.

The Light version would allow Weapon Finesse, but not Power Attack. A quicker version, this would be suitable for Improved Disarm, with perhaps a +1.

The Heavy version would allow Power Attack, but not Weapon Finesse. Heavier and with more weight to towards the end, this weapon could be used for Improved Trip.

Both would include Reach, as they do now.

And, as they are separate weapons, they'd require separate Feats to use.

So that's my proposal. What's yours?

(Personal note: I've seen people use chains in fights. The classic "bull chain" type is typically used with one hand, frequently wrapped around a fist to emulate a Cestus, and is a fast, light weapon. You can whip with it, hard enough to bruise or break bones, you can club with it, like a Cestus (armored, weighted glove), or you can use it like a garrote.

Double or even triple wide sprocket chains are used with two hands. They tear at exposed skin and rip clothing. Since they're rigid in one direction but flexible along the other axis they're a remarkably versatile weapon, definitely in the "slash and break bones" category, and yes, they'll wrap you up and take your legs right out from under you.

I could see adding spikes or spiked weights to either one to take it out of the "street weapon" category and into the arena.)

 

[Dandu]

As a weapon, the spiked chain sounds like a stupid concept.

Mechanically, it's fine. Yeah, it's better than pretty much every other exotic weapon, but most of those suck anyways. Come on, when was the last time you heard of someone breaking the game because he could finesse and power attack enemies 10 feet and 5 feet away with the same weapon?

Fighters need to have good things in D&D, and a spiked chain is a good thing for them to have.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The only thing wrong with spiked chain is the 2d4 20/x2 array is pitiful and the illustration makes the weapon look incredibly dumb.

The problem is with EVERY OTHER EXOTIC WEAPON IN THE CORE RULEBOOK.

Spiked Chain is the measuring stick for "is this weapon worth a feat?"

There are some good exotics in non-core books, at least. The Dwarven Warpike, the Talenta Sharrash, the Harpoon, the Dragon Chain, the Whip-Dagger, the Gnome Quickrazor.... those are what all exotic weapons should be like.

 

[Greenfield]

I was searching for images of chain weapons, chain whips, etc, and found quite a few.

Many come from India, a few from China, a good number from Japan.

I've found pictures of various chains that sported spikes, and a few with heavy barbs that resemble the D&D weapon.

What I don't know is if art is imitating life, or is life imitating art.

As with any free-swinging weapon I think that the Exotic Weapon feat is called for. (Can't even begin to count the guy's I've known who bonked themselves with nun-chuks in practice).

I don't know if I'd personally choose it as a weapon, but in a general brawl a sprocket chain is a game-changer. It's brutal.

 

[Sekhmet]

The issue with the spiked chain is when you get very enlarged fighters wielding it with great cleave to take out the entirety of the enemy force in one round via the leap attack/pouncing feats.

This isn't the spiked chain's fault. The spiked chain is fine.

 

[Dandu]

I was searching for images of chain weapons, chain whips, etc, and found quite a few.

Many come from India, a few from China, a good number from Japan.

I've found pictures of various chains that sported spikes, and a few with heavy barbs that resemble the D&D weapon.

What I don't know is if art is imitating life, or is life imitating art.

As with any free-swinging weapon I think that the Exotic Weapon feat is called for. (Can't even begin to count the guy's I've known who bonked themselves with nun-chuks in practice).

I don't know if I'd personally choose it as a weapon, but in a general brawl a sprocket chain is a game-hanger. It's brutal.

I retract my previous statement: I will now tolerate spiked chains.

The issue with the spiked chain is when you get very enlarged fighters wielding it with great cleave to take out the entirety of the enemy force in one round via the leap attack/pouncing feats.

Great Cleave only works if you drop an enemy, so you can only use your Great Cleavage on a horde of mooks. If you think that's broken, I got a 3rd level Sor/Wiz spell for you called Fireball...

 

[frankthedm]

The problem is with EVERY OTHER EXOTIC WEAPON IN THE CORE RULEBOOK.

Spiked Chain is the measuring stick for "is this weapon worth a feat?"

When one object stands out from a group it is supposed to fit in with, the problem is with the one standing out.

 

[Dandu]

So you admit that the other exotic weapons aren't very good.

I have a question.

If they aren't very good, and you do nothing to make them better, there will be no reason to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency unless you wanted to use an exotic weapon purely for roleplaying reasons. This forces roleplayers to spend a limited resource on something that is not worth it.

I guess what I want to ask is this: why do you hate roleplayers?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

One of the better uses for Exotic Weapon Proficiency I've seen is for using Kaorti Resin weapons for which some rules were published here

I'll take a kaorti resin falchion, thank you. 18-20/x4 crit is nothing to sneeze at, especially with insane Power Attack hits.

A fairly decent list of exotic (and normal) weapons can be found here. Shame it's 3.5 and doesn't include stuff like the Orc Shotput, but it's still pretty useful.


As to why EWP is usually lackluster, it might be because designing weapons that are truly worth it can be a chore to make "balanced" yet powerful. When you're trying to make it roughly equal to poor feats like Weapon Focus or Specialization though, it's to be expected that it's usually crap. They had to do something with the bastard sword concept even if the feat only results in +1 average damage.

 

[Sekhmet]

I retract my previous statement: I will now tolerate spiked chains.



Great Cleave only works if you drop an enemy, so you can only use your Great Cleavage on a horde of mooks. If you think that's broken, I got a 3rd level Sor/Wiz spell for you called Fireball...

I didn't say it was broken. I see no problem with it.
Honestly, if your leap attacking, pouncing, shock troopering, power attacking fighter can't down a baddie in a round, there is something terribly wrong.
Likewise, if that same gentleman doesn't think to grab Whirlwind Attack (or something similar), so he can attack every mob in a 30' radius (to give him more chances of dropping), something is wrong.

You know as well as I do that well optimized fighters can dish out damage like nobody's business.