Spells with Prerequisites?

[Vrecknidj]

All,

I was thinking out loud a few days ago to my 15-year-old gamer son. He was talking about a spell (I think he was talking about some spell in a Warcraft book) and whatever it was that he said got me to thinking about spell prerequisites.

For example, before someone could learn Charm Monster, they'd have to have Charm Person. This sort of thing. Now I know that it could severly hamper some spell selections (a wizard might have to learn all the predecessors before picking Permanent Image, for example).

On the other hand, there's something sensible about this. It's like requiring someone to learn algebra and geometry before multivariable calculus.

So, I thought that spells might come packaged with prerequisites.

Anyone else doing this? Is there something like this already set up in a 3rd party package somewhere?

(Note that I'd probably allow sorcerers to get around this, a little, by allowing them, at the appropriate level, to swap out a spell for the next one in the list.)

Dave

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I think it'd make an interesting idea for wizards... taking a little more dedication to pick up some of the higher level stuff doesn't seem like a bad idea to me! As long as spells are relatively available in the campaign.

Edit: Whoops. Missed the paragraph about sorcerors.

Perhaps sorcerors could skirt the issue entirely? It would seem to fit with their innate power way of learning powers. Would give them a boost, but nothing too major.

 

[glass]

This is how the GURPS magic system works.

I once tried to create a wizard type character for a GURPS game , and it is a pain in the behind, requiring hundreds of points to get anything vaguely resembling a decent selection of spells. The problem was not the prerequisite system per se, but the fact that in GURPS you have to pay points for every spell combined with the fact that the first few spells in each chain are utterly pointless.

That was 3e. I am given to understand that 4e is much better in this regard.


glass.

 

[Dakkareth]

For sorcerers I'd say only the highest spell in a chain counts against their number of known spells, kinda similar to psionic rules in one of the many incarnations (present? no idea). Of course that would be a great increase in power ...

 

[Vrecknidj]

I've thought a bit more about the restrictions of such an idea. On one hand this could, by itself, take care of the specialization issue--if you take spells of this sort or that sort, then you are basically specializing (it's not quite the same, I know).

But, if a character really wants, say, chain lightning some day, then he may have to take some series of prerequisite spells first (and the DM would be within rights to include both shocking grasp and lightning bolt, I suppose), and he might have wanted to take other spells at those levels. But this would be really hard to regulate in a campaign where wizards have relatively free access to spells (i.e. buying scrolls, trading spells with others, etc.). However, it could still work (and perhaps might be best used in a campaign where there are fairly stringent restrictions on accessing magic).

So, without having fairly strong campaign-based locks on the system, I'm not sure I could make it work, without revamping the system.

Dave

 

[Bihor]

the prerequisite could be only for the spells that the wizard gain automaticly.

If some one give him the spell, or from a scroll, he could just have a spell craft check penealty of -2 or sometingh like that.

 

[Verequus]

Instead revamping the entire magic system yourself, look at Elements of Magic Revised at RPGnow. It is based on a combination of spell lists and magic points, so it is not a simple change compared to the core rules. While spell lists themselves don't have any prerequisites, they allow only a narrow defined field of effects. For example, with Charm Humanoid you could create spells, which can affect even the most powerful humanoids, but without Charm Giant, Charm Dragon, etc. you can't affect anyone else, if they don't have the right creature type.

It may not be, what you want, but it is worth a try.

Edit:
I forgot, that in EoMR one has to know four spell lists of a certain action type for being able to use all possible usable MP in one spell list - otherwise there is a certain limit.