D&D (2024) Spells versus Rituals

[Yaarel]

Split spells and rituals into separate design spaces.

Rituals can do anything, require anything. Some rituals are powerful game changers, some are routine conveniences, some are just weird, quirky, or ultra specific. It depends on the particular ritual. Some rituals have requirements that intentionally help the DM narratively regulate access, such as specific astronomical timing or rare exotic ingredient. The only consistent characteristic of rituals is a level prereq for an effective that is powerful. Follow the recipe, make a skill check, see if it succeeds − or crits or fumbles. If it fumbles, the ritual magic goes horribly wrong. Some rituals are dangerous. Rituals are the stuff of most folklore magic concepts, and most fantasy genre. Rituals are like magic items − find the recipe do it if one wishes. Some book treasures (tome, manual) work this way.

Any character should be able to attempt any ritual, assuming the prereqs are met. Roll a skill check to determine success. However, a caster class should be able to optionally spend a slot to guarantee a standard success (but not a crit).

There are a number of core spells that are a trap, a bad idea to prepare for slot casting, but that would make fantastic rituals waiting in a book or scroll until it happens to be useful for that one specific occasion. These spells belong in the ritual design space, not the slot casting design space.

A ritual typically requires an amount of time to perform, either 10 minutes or an hour. Albeit some unique rituals might require days of elaborate activity and groups of people.

Many rituals require Material components as part of their recipe to perform. By contrast, slot spells depend entirely on the class. Each class has its own method to cast a spell. A Bard might cast a spell by Verbal alone. A Wizard might cast a spell by a Wand, alone. A Cleric a meaningful cultural symbol. A Psion by thought alone. A spell should never require a Material component − it depends on the class.

The ritual design spaces makes magic feel more magical. Each ritual is unique. It invites the character to "participate" in its magic. There is no routine. Rituals deserve to be their own thing.

 

[the Jester]

You can have rituals that aren't spells already- in fact, there are a number of them in published 5e adventures, such as the yuan-ti ritual to create histachii in Tomb of Annihilation. But allowing certain spells to be rituals as well as being available for casting on the spot with spell slots is a good thing, IMHO.

 

[Yaarel]

You can have rituals that aren't spells already- in fact, there are a number of them in published 5e adventures, such as the yuan-ti ritual to create histachii in Tomb of Annihilation. But allowing certain spells to be rituals as well as being available for casting on the spot with spell slots is a good thing, IMHO.

I like that nonspell rituals are starting to show up in 5e.

I feel spells that are rituals arent a good thing. They clutter up the spell casting system, and make it more difficult to assess the balance. The entire D&D game engine depends on the spellcasting system working well − especially at high levels. Spells are central way to "measure" how powerful other effects are and what level they should become available. Balance between casters and noncasters depends on spells balancing consistently. Spells need to be a smooth and reliable engine.

Meanwhile, spells as rituals are boring.

Instead, if there is a separate ritual system, it is fine if certain rituals produce the effect of a particular spell. The level prereq and other requirements, along with the 10 minute or 1 hour ritual performance, would maintain balance and reduce combat applications. Then ANYONE can achieve the spell effect − by rolling a skill check to see if the ritual succeeds. Meanwhile, fumbling such a ritual would be dangerous, because the ritual itself will clarify what happens if something goes wrong. Despite the fact that rituals can be dangerous, even casters will tend to perform them, for the sake of saving their spell slots for combat.

 

[Stalker0]

Split spells and rituals into separate design spaces.

Rituals can do anything, require anything. Some rituals are powerful game changers, some are routine conveniences, some are just weird, quirky, or ultra specific. It depends on the particular ritual. Some rituals have requirements that intentionally help the DM narratively regulate access, such as specific astronomical timing or rare exotic ingredient. The only consistent characteristic of rituals is a level prereq for an effective that is powerful. Follow the recipe, make a skill check, see if it succeeds − or crits or fumbles. If it fumbles, the ritual magic goes horribly wrong. Some rituals are dangerous. Rituals are the stuff of most folklore magic concepts, and most fantasy genre. Rituals are like magic items − find the recipe do it if one wishes. Some book treasures (tome, manual) work this way.

Any character should be able to attempt any ritual, assuming the prereqs are met. Roll a skill check to determine success. However, a caster class should be able to optionally spend a slot to guarantee a standard success (but not a crit).

There are a number of core spells that are a trap, a bad idea to prepare for slot casting, but that would make fantastic rituals waiting in a book or scroll until it happens to be useful for that one specific occasion. These spells belong in the ritual design space, not the slot casting design space.

A ritual typically requires an amount of time to perform, either 10 minutes or an hour. Albeit some unique rituals might require days of elaborate activity and groups of people.

Many rituals require Material components as part of their recipe to perform. By contrast, slot spells depend entirely on the class. Each class has its own method to cast a spell. A Bard might cast a spell by Verbal alone. A Wizard might cast a spell by a Wand, alone. A Cleric a meaningful cultural symbol. A Psion by thought alone. A spell should never require a Material component − it depends on the class.

The ritual design spaces makes magic feel more magical. Each ritual is unique. It invites the character to "participate" in its magic. There is no routine. Rituals deserve to be their own thing.

So 4e's system effectively (though in that one the ritual often had a gold cost associated to it, whereas here I guess the cost is in acquiring the ritual)

 

[Tonguez]

limit spells to level 3, make everything else a Ritual

 

[Horwath]

limit spells to level 3, make everything else a Ritual

I would agree if you said up to 5th level.

Half casters get to 5th level spells, so could full casters, but with more spell slots to use.

6th-9th only as 1 min rituals or more for specific "spells".

Honestly if someone gives you in battle 1 minute of free casting, maybe they deserve to have a meteor fall on their head every minute.

 

[aco175]

Things like this depends on how much you want magic in your game. Would everyone know the clean the bathroom or wash the dishes ritual? Maybe certain backgrounds have them and others have merchant stuff like tally register. If rituals are limited to those that studies casting, then that says something about the level of magic in the world and feels more standard. Maybe there is a feat that lets you be able to cast rituals as a bit of compromise.

I still can see where some spells can also be rituals though. The basic prestidigitation might be needed to light a torch right now and later to wash the dishes. This spell is a bit of catchall to prevent naming all the silly chores that would be rituals like fold the laundry or pluck the chicken. The ones most useful in daily life.

Big campaign rituals that are plot never seem to get used beyond being stopped. So, you stopped the cultists from summoning a demon- where is the ritual in the treasure list? I am running the After Icespire series and the PCs stop Talos worshipers from creating a giant lightning storm in the region, but the parchment telling the worshippers how to cast it is nowhere to be found. Maybe these things are assumed to be in the head of the lead caster and they draw power from the mooks helping to cast it.

 

[Willie the Duck]

I feel spells that are rituals arent a good thing. They clutter up the spell casting system, and make it more difficult to assess the balance. The entire D&D game engine depends on the spellcasting system working well − especially at high levels. Spells are central way to "measure" how powerful other effects are and what level they should become available. Balance between casters and noncasters depends on spells balancing consistently. Spells need to be a smooth and reliable engine.

Meanwhile, spells as rituals are boring.

Instead, if there is a separate ritual system, it is fine if certain rituals produce the effect of a particular spell. The level prereq and other requirements, along with the 10 minute or 1 hour ritual performance, would maintain balance and reduce combat applications. Then ANYONE can achieve the spell effect − by rolling a skill check to see if the ritual succeeds. Meanwhile, fumbling such a ritual would be dangerous, because the ritual itself will clarify what happens if something goes wrong. Despite the fact that rituals can be dangerous, even casters will tend to perform them, for the sake of saving their spell slots for combat.

One thing I would like out of a ritual system is to actually make cleric and wizard nonessential party members. There are a number of spells that are relatively required in (many forms of) certain levels of play -- lesser/greater restoration, remove curse, raise dead/resurrection, plane shift/astral projection, to a lesser extent dispel magic, scry, divination, and teleport. In theory you could cover all of those with a party with a druid, divine soul sorcerer, and lore bard (or other combination of people pitching in), however, realistically that wouldn't happen. I would love love love it if rituals/ritual casting/some other method could remove that issue.

limit spells to level 3, make everything else a Ritual

I would agree if you said up to 5th level.

Half casters get to 5th level spells, so could full casters, but with more spell slots to use.
6th-9th only as 1 min rituals or more for specific "spells".

Honestly if someone gives you in battle 1 minute of free casting, maybe they deserve to have a meteor fall on their head every minute.

Once we're messing with the system as much as this, the actual level cut-off doesn't matter, it would be specific spells that should go into the cast-from-slots paradigm and others into the ritual one.

one-minute combat spells seems like a waste (yes, you'd deserve the meteor swarm in that case, does the game benefit from people trying to set that up?). I'd rather there be 1 minute rituals for OOC effects that don't need to be in the slot system, 1-minute to 1-day rituals for things someone might want to do in a high-adrenaline location where disrupting/preventing disruption of said ritual would be an interesting game-session experience*, and days-to-months rituals for plot-level effects.
*ex: "we can deconsecrate the temple to Cthulhu if we complete this 6-hour ritual. We 3 have to perform the ritual, you 3 have to intercept cultists trying to stop us"

 

[Distracted DM]

A lot of this sounds like what 4e did, or an extension of it- especially the separation of what spells would be rituals entirely from non-ritual spells.
Plus restoration etc. spells mentioned, heck even stuff like Prayer of Healing could be a ritual since 4e burned hit dice to heal.

 

[Tonguez]

One thing I would like out of a ritual system is to actually make cleric and wizard nonessential party members. There are a number of spells that are relatively required in (many forms of) certain levels of play -- lesser/greater restoration, remove curse, raise dead/resurrection, plane shift/astral projection, to a lesser extent dispel magic, scry, divination, and teleport. In theory you could cover all of those with a party with a druid, divine soul sorcerer, and lore bard (or other combination of people pitching in), however, realistically that wouldn't happen. I would love love love it if rituals/ritual casting/some other method could remove that issue.


Once we're messing with the system as much as this, the actual level cut-off doesn't matter, it would be specific spells that should go into the cast-from-slots paradigm and others into the ritual one.

one-minute combat spells seems like a waste (yes, you'd deserve the meteor swarm in that case, does the game benefit from people trying to set that up?). I'd rather there be 1 minute rituals for OOC effects that don't need to be in the slot system, 1-minute to 1-day rituals for things someone might want to do in a high-adrenaline location where disrupting/preventing disruption of said ritual would be an interesting game-session experience*, and days-to-months rituals for plot-level effects.
*ex: "we can deconsecrate the temple to Cthulhu if we complete this 6-hour ritual. We 3 have to perform the ritual, you 3 have to intercept cultists trying to stop us"

Yeah I'd agree with that, I set the cut off at level 3, because that's where problem spells start.

But going through individual spells would be more beneficial though also more onerous.

I do like the idea of rituals as plot effects