Spectral Hand has an incomplete description?

[azhrei_fje]

My players and I got into a discussion this evening about the spectral hand spell. (The SRD description is available here.)

1. The headers of the spell say that the range is medium: does this mean that the hand can appear anywhere within medium range? One of the players (who often DM's at conferences) says that he typically plays that the hand appears next to the spellcaster and must move to the intended target.

2. If that's true, what is the movement speed? Can the hand move to an opponent, make a touch attack, then move away? The spell description says that if the attack is successful, the hand returns to the caster. Does that mean on the following round if the spell doesn't have any movement left in the current round?

3. The description also says, "[...] any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand [...]". That means to me that touch attack spells can still be performed by the spellcaster himself and the hand does not have to be used if not desired. Do you agree?

4. And yet more: "[...] attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack." Does that mean that the spellcaster doesn't get to take other standard actions (since any attack takes place as at least a standard action)? Can they touch a creature using the spectral hand and then make another attack if they get multiple attacks per round because of a BAB of +6 or more? After all, the description says that it counts "normally as an attack", not as "a standard action" or "full attack" or other similar wording...

5. And last, why is the AC "at least 22"? Is the AC supposed to be 10 (base) + 8 (fine size) + 4 (???). There is no armor bonus, no shield bonus, and no Dex bonus (use Int instead), which leaves only the base and size bonus. So why is it at least 22? Does it have something to do with the hand being incorporeal?

 

[Storm Raven]

My players and I got into a discussion this evening about the spectral hand spell. (The SRD description is available here.)

1. The headers of the spell say that the range is medium: does this mean that the hand can appear anywhere within medium range? One of the players (who often DM's at conferences) says that he typically plays that the hand appears next to the spellcaster and must move to the intended target.

2. If that's true, what is the movement speed? Can the hand move to an opponent, make a touch attack, then move away? The spell description says that if the attack is successful, the hand returns to the caster. Does that mean on the following round if the spell doesn't have any movement left in the current round?

The hand moves any distance the caster desires it to within the range of the spell. he could use it to deliver a touch attack against a target 100+ feet in front of him, and then move the hand to a location 100+ feet behind him if he desires.

3. The description also says, "[...] any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand [...]". That means to me that touch attack spells can still be performed by the spellcaster himself and the hand does not have to be used if not desired. Do you agree?

Use of the spectral hand is elective. You don't have to use it to deliver a touch spell if you don't want to (although if you have it active, it makes sense to deliver as many touch spells as you can with it, because it gives a +2 bonus to the attack roll).

4. And yet more: "[...] attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack." Does that mean that the spellcaster doesn't get to take other standard actions (since any attack takes place as at least a standard action)? Can they touch a creature using the spectral hand and then make another attack if they get multiple attacks per round because of a BAB of +6 or more? After all, the description says that it counts "normally as an attack", not as "a standard action" or "full attack" or other similar wording...

Attacking with the hand replaces a single attack. If the caster has more than one attack and wants to stab someone with his dagger, or take a shot with his crossbow in the same round, that's perfectly okay.

5. And last, why is the AC "at least 22"? Is the AC supposed to be 10 (base) + 8 (fine size) + 4 (???). There is no armor bonus, no shield bonus, and no Dex bonus (use Int instead), which leaves only the base and size bonus. So why is it at least 22? Does it have something to do with the hand being incorporeal?

The Fine size gives a +8 size bonus to armor class. I think they treat the hand as "superfine" and give it a +12 size bonus to AC (after all, a Diminutive or Fine creature might cast the spell too). If that is the case, then the AC would be 22. However, that doesn't account for the Intelligence bonus to AC that the caster provides, so then the AC would be higher.

 

[ElectricDragon]

My thoughts were that the extra +4 to AC was a deflection bonus to AC. Usually equal to an incorporeal creature's Charisma bonus but always at least +1.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Bront]

1&2) It effectively gives you a range of medium for all touch spells of 4th level or less, at the prereq of casting a different spell first. It gives you an extra +2 to hit, though it is potentialy debatable if you use your own strength (or dex if you have finesse) in that attack, or simply your BAB +2. Also, the fact that it instantly appears by you again if it goes to far or delivers an attack leans towards it being able to move anywhere in that distance instantly.

Question Begged: Since you're technicaly now at range, can you still CDG with a touch spell?

3) It is technicaly optional, but how usefull that is is debatable. If it had a movement rate, then that would make more sense.

4) It works like Trip, or Disarm. It can be substituted in place of any other attack in either a standard attack, or Full attack combo. I would say it is NOT compatable with two weapon fighting though (Meaning you can't use TWF to attack with it and one normal weapon at -2 each (or any subsequent TWF attacks))

 

[Hypersmurf]

Question Begged: Since you're technicaly now at range, can you still CDG with a touch spell?

Spectral Hand is an interesting case where you're making a melee attack from a distance... almost like a very long reach weapon.

For example, if you use a Spectral Hand to deliver a Shocking Grasp to a flat-footed opponent while you're a hundred feet away, you can deal Sneak Attack damage. The 30 foot limitation is specifically for ranged attacks, and Spectral Hand is a melee attack, not subject to the limitation.

Similarly, as long as you consider a touch-range spell delivered with a melee touch attack to be a 'melee weapon' - in other words, as long as you allow a CDG with a Shocking Grasp - there's nothing preventing a CDG with a Spectral Handed Shocking Grasp from a hundred feet away. The 'adjacent opponent' rule is specific to bows and crossbows.

If you don't consider a Shocking Grasp to be a 'melee weapon' for the purpose of a CDG, then it won't work with or without the Spectral Hand.

-Hyp.