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Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk
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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 9311457" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>So its claws and bites do the same damage in both hybrid and dragon form using the <strong>Dragon Space/Reach, Attacks, and Damage</strong> table?</p><p></p><p>That'd be 1d8 bite and 1d6 claws for a Medium weredragon, which is a step nastier than the claws and bite of a standard lycanthrope (1d6 bite & 1d4 claws for Medium).</p><p></p><p>The <em>FR7 - Hall of Heroes</em> does 1d6 damage with those three attacks, making its bite a LOT less deadly than a true dragon.</p><p></p><p>If we wanted to represent that, we could just have its bite do the same damage as its claws when in hybrid form.</p><p></p><p>Also, in dragon form its bite attack has increased reach (e.g. 10 ft. for Large). I'm thinking it might have regular reach in hybrid form as well as claw level damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It'll have a specific reference to a natural weapon-tied special attack of a true dragon, I just hadn't decided on one I liked yet. None of the SRD true dragons have non-standard special natural weapon attacks, so I was thinking we'd use one from the Creature Catalog.</p><p></p><p>I did wonder about using the Constrict attack of a Young or older Tlalocoatl, but reading the CC entry more closely that'd also require us to mention the Multiple Heads SA since only its Jaguar head has a bite attack with Improved Grab.</p><p></p><p>Come to think of it, there must be other true dragons with Improved Grab. It'd be easier just combing through them to pick one…</p><p></p><p>…Here's one!</p><p></p><p>How about " If the base dragon has a special attack tied to another natural weapon, such as <span style="color: magenta">the improved grab of an Ichthyodrake's bite attack</span> or the crush attack of a Huge true dragon" </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Letting them keep Crush works for me. If a toddler can roll around on the floor, I'd think an adventurer would be able to figure it out! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Besides, Crush is comparatively ineffective and honestly I can't remember ever bothering to have a dragon use it. To affect Medium sized opponents the dragon has to be Gargantuan or Colossal in size and there are so many more effective things a Gargantuan true dragon can use its round for.</p><p></p><p>Indeed, I suspect a big enough Giant Weredragon might find Crush more useful than a true dragon does, since they probably won't have the age categories for the more effective options.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Definitely.</p><p></p><p>I'm most concerned about when and whether the hybrid form gets a Wings attack. The original 2E AD&D monster didn't have wing spur attacks like a 2E True Dragon, nor does the 3E Half-Dragon we're cribbing some of our stats from, but a 3E true dragon gains wing attacks at Medium size.</p><p></p><p>If we're giving the Hybrid Form natural weapon-tied special attacks then presumably we're giving it other dragon natural weapons like tail slap and tail sweep too, which we'll need to decide if and how they'll be adjusted.</p><p></p><p>For example, the hybrid form has a slower fly speed so maybe its wings are weaker so are treated as a size category smaller (i.e. so it starts getting wings attacks at size Large with 1d4 damage).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 9311457, member: 57383"] So its claws and bites do the same damage in both hybrid and dragon form using the [b]Dragon Space/Reach, Attacks, and Damage[/b] table? That'd be 1d8 bite and 1d6 claws for a Medium weredragon, which is a step nastier than the claws and bite of a standard lycanthrope (1d6 bite & 1d4 claws for Medium). The [i]FR7 - Hall of Heroes[/i] does 1d6 damage with those three attacks, making its bite a LOT less deadly than a true dragon. If we wanted to represent that, we could just have its bite do the same damage as its claws when in hybrid form. Also, in dragon form its bite attack has increased reach (e.g. 10 ft. for Large). I'm thinking it might have regular reach in hybrid form as well as claw level damage. It'll have a specific reference to a natural weapon-tied special attack of a true dragon, I just hadn't decided on one I liked yet. None of the SRD true dragons have non-standard special natural weapon attacks, so I was thinking we'd use one from the Creature Catalog. I did wonder about using the Constrict attack of a Young or older Tlalocoatl, but reading the CC entry more closely that'd also require us to mention the Multiple Heads SA since only its Jaguar head has a bite attack with Improved Grab. Come to think of it, there must be other true dragons with Improved Grab. It'd be easier just combing through them to pick one… …Here's one! How about " If the base dragon has a special attack tied to another natural weapon, such as [COLOR=magenta]the improved grab of an Ichthyodrake's bite attack[/COLOR] or the crush attack of a Huge true dragon" Letting them keep Crush works for me. If a toddler can roll around on the floor, I'd think an adventurer would be able to figure it out! :p Besides, Crush is comparatively ineffective and honestly I can't remember ever bothering to have a dragon use it. To affect Medium sized opponents the dragon has to be Gargantuan or Colossal in size and there are so many more effective things a Gargantuan true dragon can use its round for. Indeed, I suspect a big enough Giant Weredragon might find Crush more useful than a true dragon does, since they probably won't have the age categories for the more effective options. Definitely. I'm most concerned about when and whether the hybrid form gets a Wings attack. The original 2E AD&D monster didn't have wing spur attacks like a 2E True Dragon, nor does the 3E Half-Dragon we're cribbing some of our stats from, but a 3E true dragon gains wing attacks at Medium size. If we're giving the Hybrid Form natural weapon-tied special attacks then presumably we're giving it other dragon natural weapons like tail slap and tail sweep too, which we'll need to decide if and how they'll be adjusted. For example, the hybrid form has a slower fly speed so maybe its wings are weaker so are treated as a size category smaller (i.e. so it starts getting wings attacks at size Large with 1d4 damage). [/QUOTE]
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