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Special Conversion Thread: Lycanthropes and their ilk
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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8370073" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>Okay, I deredded the relevant portions during the previous update.</p><p></p><p>So you're proposing "By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base dragon: 1 HD or 2 HD, +3; 3 HD to 5 HD, +4; 6 HD to 10 HD, +5; 11 HD to 20 HD, +6; 21 or more HD, +7" then?</p><p></p><p>Hmm, let's run some examples.</p><p></p><p>A human warrior 1 werewyvern is CR 11</p><p>[dragon HD 7 => wyvern CR 6+5]</p><p></p><p>A forest gnome druid 3 werepseudodragon is CR 6</p><p>[dragon HD 2 => druid CR 3+3]]</p><p></p><p>A storm giant weredragonturtle is CR 19</p><p>[dragon HD 12 => giant's CR 13+6]</p><p></p><p>Those numbers eyeball as being slightly high, using the standard lycanthrope progression:</p><p></p><p><strong>Challenge Rating #1:</strong> By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base dragon: 1 HD or 2 HD, +2; 3 HD to 5 HD, +3; 6 HD to 10 HD, +4; 11 HD to 20 HD, +5; 21 or more HD, +6.</p><p></p><p>The normal progression would give Challenge Ratings of CR 10, CR 5 and CR 18 respectively, which seem fine to me. The base mundane dragons tend to have significantly higher Challenge Ratings than normal animals. It's true dragons which tend to be noticeably under-CRd since the designers thought it was an appropriate "feature" to make them overpowered relative to a given level of party. We should watch out for that when we get around to the next Weredragon template.</p><p></p><p>Alternatively, we could compress the scaling slightly so it becomes +7 CR at 21 or more HD but starts out at +2? Thus:</p><p></p><p><strong>Challenge Rating #2:</strong> By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base animal: 1 HD or 2 HD, +2; 3 HD to 4 HD, +3; 5 HD to 8 HD, +4; 9 HD to 13 HD, +5; 14 HD to 20 HD, +6; 21 or more HD, +7.</p><p></p><p>I considered scaling it up to +8 CR, something like:</p><p></p><p><strong>Challenge Rating #3:</strong> By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base animal: 1 HD or 2 HD, +2; 3 HD to 4 HD, +3; 5 HD to 7 HD, +4; 8 HD to 11 HD, +5; 12 HD to 15 HD, +6; 16 HD to 20 HD, +7; 21 or more HD, +8.</p><p></p><p>Or a "starting at 1 HD" version?</p><p></p><p><strong>Challenge Rating #4:</strong> By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base animal: 1 HD, +2; 2 HD to 3 HD, +3; 4 HD to 6 HD, +4; 7 HD to 10 HD, +5; 11 HD to 15 HD, +6; 16 HD to 20 HD, +7; 21 or more HD, +8.</p><p></p><p>Not really decided. CR is an inexact science at the best of times, and templates/advancement are doubly so. It's easy to end up with a ridiculously high or pathetically low CR with a careless build.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8370073, member: 57383"] Okay, I deredded the relevant portions during the previous update. So you're proposing "By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base dragon: 1 HD or 2 HD, +3; 3 HD to 5 HD, +4; 6 HD to 10 HD, +5; 11 HD to 20 HD, +6; 21 or more HD, +7" then? Hmm, let's run some examples. A human warrior 1 werewyvern is CR 11 [dragon HD 7 => wyvern CR 6+5] A forest gnome druid 3 werepseudodragon is CR 6 [dragon HD 2 => druid CR 3+3]] A storm giant weredragonturtle is CR 19 [dragon HD 12 => giant's CR 13+6] Those numbers eyeball as being slightly high, using the standard lycanthrope progression: [B]Challenge Rating #1:[/B] By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base dragon: 1 HD or 2 HD, +2; 3 HD to 5 HD, +3; 6 HD to 10 HD, +4; 11 HD to 20 HD, +5; 21 or more HD, +6. The normal progression would give Challenge Ratings of CR 10, CR 5 and CR 18 respectively, which seem fine to me. The base mundane dragons tend to have significantly higher Challenge Ratings than normal animals. It's true dragons which tend to be noticeably under-CRd since the designers thought it was an appropriate "feature" to make them overpowered relative to a given level of party. We should watch out for that when we get around to the next Weredragon template. Alternatively, we could compress the scaling slightly so it becomes +7 CR at 21 or more HD but starts out at +2? Thus: [B]Challenge Rating #2:[/B] By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base animal: 1 HD or 2 HD, +2; 3 HD to 4 HD, +3; 5 HD to 8 HD, +4; 9 HD to 13 HD, +5; 14 HD to 20 HD, +6; 21 or more HD, +7. I considered scaling it up to +8 CR, something like: [B]Challenge Rating #3:[/B] By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base animal: 1 HD or 2 HD, +2; 3 HD to 4 HD, +3; 5 HD to 7 HD, +4; 8 HD to 11 HD, +5; 12 HD to 15 HD, +6; 16 HD to 20 HD, +7; 21 or more HD, +8. Or a "starting at 1 HD" version? [B]Challenge Rating #4:[/B] By class level or base creature, modified according to the HD of the base animal: 1 HD, +2; 2 HD to 3 HD, +3; 4 HD to 6 HD, +4; 7 HD to 10 HD, +5; 11 HD to 15 HD, +6; 16 HD to 20 HD, +7; 21 or more HD, +8. Not really decided. CR is an inexact science at the best of times, and templates/advancement are doubly so. It's easy to end up with a ridiculously high or pathetically low CR with a careless build. [/QUOTE]
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