Somewhat related to D&D, Vanguard to institute new fees

GreyLord

Legend
Thought about putting it in the D&D forum (and if it fits, a mod could move it there), but as it's only Tangentially related, didn't quite know where else to put it.

Vanguard has more money than Elon Musk, more money than many small nations, and those running it probably have more money at their fingertips that they handle than most of the richest people in the world. They currently have around 8.5 TRILLION (that's right, that's TRILLION) US dollars in assets.

One of the big groups on the board is Vanguard. They are actually a rather MASSIVE part of Hasbro, owning more of the company than anyone else. If it is the same Vanguard that I am thinking, they also do stocks for people (as well as handle retirements, funds, and much, much more in the world of finances).

So, I've heard a rumor that could impact how Vanguard does things eventually, which in turn could affect Hasbro, which in turn could affect WotC which in turn could affect D&D (yes, that's quite the chain there, but also yes, I think it is a logical chain of cause and effect).

Anyone with less than 1,000,000 USD who is doing a transaction over the phone will now be charged $25 for it. It doesn't affect anyone who does the same thing over the internet. This actually effects my generation as we tend to do more things over landlines and in person than over cell/smart phone OR the internet (wired or wireless).

However, this isn't the part that really personally worries me. I think it's being done in poor taste, and they should do something else, but at the end of the day progress is made. I expect it's more a move to force people to move to doing business over the internet than to punish old people.

They are now going to charge ANYONE who has less than 5 million dollars in Vanguard a $100 dollar fee (yes, I know, some of you may think that is minimal to someone with a lot of money, but it's anyone so even those with less than 1000 dollars I would suppose) to transfer accounts. There is also rumors that the $25 charge will apply to those with less than 5 Million in their accounts at some point if they haven't already.

Now, many of those who have a little bit more money tied up in Vanguard prefer to meet with people there personally and handle things in a more secure place than simply online, over wireless, or otherwise. I think these fees will apply to them on top of the fee for meeting in person.

Some would say those who have that type of money shouldn't care, it's a drop in the bucket...but many of them are incredibly tight fisted. Many who may feel they have investments in Hasbro are invested via Vanguard, whether they may realize it or not.

The largest single investor who is independent has around 410 Million. He was an insider who has a lot of stock. Vanguard itself literally has over double what he has. Vanguard investment group has almost 2.5X what he has.

This change indicates a change within Vanguard and where it is going...I have no idea. However, I think this new way of approaching things probably has a high chance of eventually affecting Hasbro (and other companies Vanguard owns) simply due to how it affects those who invest and do business with Vanguard and the thinking that goes behind it.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend, he/him
While that sounds unpleasant, but at a guess rather than trying to force anything, it could be tge percentage of their customers who wants this has dropped low enough thst maintaining staffing for on the phone support doesn't make sense for free, but would be viable with the charge.
 

Blue Orange

Gone to Texas
A little bit of backstory:

Vanguard, specifically founder Jack Bogle, was the originators of the index fund. Those things where you buy one of every stock in the S&P 500 to diversify? Yeah, that was them back in 1975 with the First Index Investment Trust. They were famous for having the lowest fees in the industry, which is relevant when you're expecting compound interest to grow your retirement account over the years. (Companies would charge huge active management fees, significantly decreasing your stake.) Bogle famously died a millionaire rather than a billionaire like the owners of equivalent firms.

Supposedly it's owned by the funds themselves, rather than an investment company as in the case of their major competitors, making it ironically, in some senses, a form of socialism, despite it owning a not-insignificant portion of Corporate America at this point. The index fund strategy was so far superior to active management for just about anyone not named Warren Buffett that something like a third of the market is now owned by index funds. Indeed, the largest shareholder in Hasbro is Vanguard, at 11%. A lot of that is probably average folks and pension funds parking their assets in index funds.

They've done a few things since then to hold their costs down, like a unique asset structure to decrease the tax burden on ETFs for customers, and have been one of the major drivers to lower fees in the investment industry (which as mentioned used to be a huge cost for the retail investor, i.e. you and me). The company's done a few questionable things since then, such as a ownership-class swap that stuck customers with a bunch of surprise taxes (Lessons From Vanguard Target-Date’s Capital Gains Surprise). (The whole rigmarole is extremely complex but the lesson here is not to hold target-date funds in a taxable account.) Customer service is famously slow (perhaps due to the desire to keep fees down). Vanguard is supposed to be the place you go to shove your excess dough and forget about it until retirement, though apparently now they'll be taking some of it too.

FWIW Blackrock was rather recently buying up a lot of the single-family homes in the US and selling them to real-estate companies, so it's not like their competitors are that pure either.

And if you're too poor to have significant investments, this is hardly relevant.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Some would say those who have that type of money shouldn't care, it's a drop in the bucket...but many of them are incredibly tight fisted. Many who may feel they have investments in Hasbro are invested via Vanguard, whether they may realize it or not.

The largest single investor who is independent has around 410 Million. He was an insider who has a lot of stock. Vanguard itself literally has over double what he has. Vanguard investment group has almost 2.5X what he has.

This change indicates a change within Vanguard and where it is going...I have no idea. However, I think this new way of approaching things probably has a high chance of eventually affecting Hasbro (and other companies Vanguard owns) simply due to how it affects those who invest and do business with Vanguard and the thinking that goes behind it.

I think you are overthinking this.

Vanguard may be one of Hasbro's biggest stock owners, but they are big stock owners in loads of major companies - they invented index funds, after all. So, if this is an issue, it is one for the stock market overall, not for Hasbro, specifically And at the point, it isn't our game we should be worried about, but the economy as a whole.
 



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