So tell me about the Book of Exalted Deeds in play

[SteveC]

I'm running both a D20 Modern and classic 3.5 Edition campaign, and some of the players are requesting that I bring in material from the Book of Exalted Deeds. I've read some of the reviews, but I haven't really gotten a sense of what it will add to the campaign.

So my question is, for those of you who've used it, what's the good, the bad and the ugly about using the rules from this book? Do you think the rules are balanced (a loaded question, to be sure)? Did it take over and have a disproportionate effect on the campaign? Would introducing these rules in the middle of a campaign cause problems?

 

[CRGreathouse]

I've had no problems with the book, and I have players who like to have the edge, so to speak, in mechanics. I obviously banned Vow of Poverty for my game, for flavor reasons as well as potential (and justified, I feel) balance concerns.

As with most sources, I don't use all of the feats, PrCs, and spells in the book, so there could be some imbalance concerns I've avoided that way, but the book really didn't look that bad to me -- certainly not half as bad as it's invariably portrayed.

 

[erian_7]

I've had great success with it, but counter-balance benefits the party might gain with evil NPC goodies from the BoVD.

I've actually allowed the Vow of Poverty and it seems to work very well. The character is fairly balanced vs. the power of the rest of the party. He's hard to hit/damage, but no more so than someone with access to items of a similar nature (the party has crafters, so they can make a lot of what they specifically need and sell unneeded items). He's also a one-trick pony in many respects, suffering in some significant areas (ranged attacks, for instance).

 

[Kealios]

I've had great success with it, but counter-balance benefits the party might gain with evil NPC goodies from the BoVD.

I've actually allowed the Vow of Poverty and it seems to work very well. The character is fairly balanced vs. the power of the rest of the party. He's hard to hit/damage, but no more so than someone with access to items of a similar nature (the party has crafters, so they can make a lot of what they specifically need and sell unneeded items). He's also a one-trick pony in many respects, suffering in some significant areas (ranged attacks, for instance).

Vow of Poverty is powerful for two classes, basically: Monks and Druids. However, the fact that they cant use items (even temporarily) can lead to some great roleplaying aspects!

Ive used this vow once to make my own monk powerful in a friend's campaign, and it was good times, but in my longer-running campaign, my friend's druid is just beginning to take the vow at level 10. The things he is giving up are impressive, and has already had to confront some potential side effects of his upcoming vow. Also, because he is now an exalted character, the normal "good" alignments dont really apply. A neutral good druid, torturing evil characters would normally be ok for what they did (to an extent), but as an exalted character, that was the biggest no-no ever, and once again, led to a huge role-playing side story.

All in all, I've loved the book, and use it in my campaign freely. Even the VoPoverty can add alot when done with wisdom.

Kealios

 

[AIM-54]

In my campaign aspects from BoED were attempted by some and it had an overall negative effect. Make sure your players are interested as a whole in being exalted. Nothing gets more annoying to other players than some goody-goody, wannabe exalted screwing things up because they have to be uber-good. If the other characters are not interested in that it can lead to tension. Further, such players can get in trouble if they get caught in a moral dilemma from which there is no "exalted" solution. It can make for some very interesting role-playing, but it can lead to frayed tempers.

For my part, I'm against it. There's nothing worse than some goody-goody whining about not hurting anyone, when all I want to do is break some heads and enjoy the combat. YMMV.

 

[SteveC]

Vow of Poverty is powerful for two classes, basically: Monks and Druids. However, the fact that they cant use items (even temporarily) can lead to some great roleplaying aspects!

Ive used this vow once to make my own monk powerful in a friend's campaign, and it was good times, but in my longer-running campaign, my friend's druid is just beginning to take the vow at level 10. The things he is giving up are impressive, and has already had to confront some potential side effects of his upcoming vow. Also, because he is now an exalted character, the normal "good" alignments dont really apply. A neutral good druid, torturing evil characters would normally be ok for what they did (to an extent), but as an exalted character, that was the biggest no-no ever, and once again, led to a huge role-playing side story.

All in all, I've loved the book, and use it in my campaign freely. Even the VoPoverty can add alot when done with wisdom.

Kealios

Well the Vow is my primary concern, since that is what people seem to be most focused on. It seems to me that it offers so many benefits and scales with level so much that it would be better represented by a template or prestige class. My other concern is that this aspect will take over the campaign too much. A paladin character can be difficult enough at times but it seems like these characters might be a real problem for the rest of the group (who are not evil but are on the neutral side of things to be sure).

Any thoughts on these issues?

 

[erian_7]

Well the Vow is my primary concern, since that is what people seem to be most focused on. It seems to me that it offers so many benefits and scales with level so much that it would be better represented by a template or prestige class. My other concern is that this aspect will take over the campaign too much. A paladin character can be difficult enough at times but it seems like these characters might be a real problem for the rest of the group (who are not evil but are on the neutral side of things to be sure).

Any thoughts on these issues?

I actually ran a GP comparison and the VoP came out pretty close at all levels when compared to the PC Total GP value per level chart from the DMG. The only thing non-VoP folks can't get are the Exalted feats, and after 2-3 of those, they start getting weak (very class- and alignment-specific). May be different in campaigns that give the party random items _and_ don't have much item creation going on internally. Work up all the benefits in total, then compare to a fully equipped character (a VoP monk vs. a Ring of Protection/Bracers of Armor/Amulet of Might Fists/etc. monk for instance)--the benefits are almost spot on.

From a group cohesion perspective, yes it can cause problems. However, that tension should already be present if you have a LG paladin-like character mixed in with a bunch of Neutral folks. There has been no problem IMC because I encourage "heroic" play, and going around busting heads for fun or torturing _anybody_ is likely to get a character ultimately smacked down. I even warn players about trying Evil or borderline Neutral characters that such will likely lead to the character's ultimate death/imprisonment if they act outside the law on a regular basis. So I'd agree that allowing the Exalted character(s) will cause either good (offering some internal RP) or bad (tearing the group apart) effects based on the make-up of the group. I guess my question would be if you have a LG paladin-like character, _why_ are they mixed in with a bunch of Neutral folks in the first place? Unless they're working on converting folks, that seems like a relationship that can't last or metagaming.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I thought some of the items and spells were a little off to fairly unbalanced. Most are fine, but some might not fit every campaign.

The prestige classes have been good so far - Knight of Raziel and the Annointed Knight have both popped up - they were fun and didn't overshadow anyone.

Havn't seen the VOP in action.

 

[Arnwyn]

I own and have read it, and it seems not bad.

The only questionable part that I found were the magic items - some seem a little over-the-top for the cost. I'd evaluate each and every magic item before introducing it into the game.

 

[Ziggy]

We've used some of the spells from it. Last session my mage used Storm of Shards to great effect, cleaning out great hordes of low-level undead without any problems for the other good PC. It's a powerful spell, but IMO just below the limit for it's level. Some of the others are more troubling, I remember discussing some of them with my DM and agreeing that they were just too powerful (sorry - can't remember which ones - and I don't have my books here..)

.Ziggy