Skeleton template

[heirodule]

If you give a creature exotic weapon proficiency, and then turn it into a skeleton, does it retain proficinency? the SRD says "A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can’t work without flesh."

What if you are turning a Drow with the Drow Skirmisher feat (Secrets of Xen'Drik) which gives proficiency with the Drow Long Knife and enables +1 damage when skirmishing. Do you keep proficiency when he turns skeleton?

What about the skirmishing damage?

 

[Pinotage]

If you give a creature exotic weapon proficiency, and then turn it into a skeleton, does it retain proficinency? the SRD says "A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can’t work without flesh."

What if you are turning a Drow with the Drow Skirmisher feat (Secrets of Xen'Drik) which gives proficiency with the Drow Long Knife and enables +1 damage when skirmishing. Do you keep proficiency when he turns skeleton?

What about the skirmishing damage?

No, it doesn't. If you look under the 'feats' heading, it states that it loses all feats that it had, and instead only gains Improved Initiative.

Pinotage

 

[Infiniti2000]

Huh.

So, a human fighter turned skeleton loses some (martial) weapon proficiencies. A human commoner turned skeleton gains some (simple) weapon proficiencies.

 

[Knight Otu]

If you give a creature exotic weapon proficiency, and then turn it into a skeleton, does it retain proficinency? the SRD says "A skeleton retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature, except for attacks that can’t work without flesh."

It doesn't retain the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, but it retains the exotic weapon proficiency (odd as that may sound).

What if you are turning a Drow with the Drow Skirmisher feat (Secrets of Xen'Drik) which gives proficiency with the Drow Long Knife and enables +1 damage when skirmishing. Do you keep proficiency when he turns skeleton?

What about the skirmishing damage?

It loses the feat, but retains the proficiency. Since it lost the feat, it loses any other benefit it may grant. Further, I would count the Skirmishing damage as a special attack, which it also loses (rather than a special quality, which it might retain if it improves melee or ranged attacks).

 

[Pinotage]

Huh.

So, a human fighter turned skeleton loses some (martial) weapon proficiencies. A human commoner turned skeleton gains some (simple) weapon proficiencies.

Yip. You gotta do what undead do. Join the herd - you know you want to!

Pinotage

 

[Knight Otu]

Huh.

So, a human fighter turned skeleton loses some (martial) weapon proficiencies. A human commoner turned skeleton gains some (simple) weapon proficiencies.

The fighter skeleton doesn't lose any proficiencies (remember that the skeleton retains all proficiencies), but the commoner skeleton does indeed learn quite a bit about weapons from its undeadification.

 

[Pinotage]

The fighter skeleton doesn't lose any proficiencies (remember that the skeleton retains all proficiencies), but the commoner skeleton does indeed learn quite a bit about weapons from its undeadification.

That's the weird thing - it may keep the proficiencies, but that doesn't mean anything. If it loses, for example, the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat, it loses the benefit of the feat, in other words it loses the ability to attack with the weapon normally, i.e. it takes a penalty and might as well not have been proficient with the weapon. Similarly, if it loses the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, it doesn't matter if it retains the proficiency, since it loses the benefit of the feat, i.e. the penalty remains.

Pinotage

 

[Knight Otu]

But weapon proficiency isn't dependant on feats. Feats are just one way to gain weapon proficiencies. Another is taking a class level, or being of a certain creature type.

 

[Pinotage]

But weapon proficiency isn't dependant on feats. Feats are just one way to gain weapon proficiencies. Another is taking a class level, or being of a certain creature type.

In the case of a proficiency granted by class or race, I'd say the skeleton kept it and was able to use it without penalty. In the case of a proficiency granted by a feat, I'd say it lost the benefit of the feat and hence takes the penalty for using the weapon. Does that make more sense?

Pinotage

 

[Knight Otu]

Sure, it makes sense (which is why I said 'odd as that may sound' above). I just disagree, because the template specifically says that the skeleton retains all weapon proficiencies, and proficiencies from feats, as I read it, are included in all proficiencies.