Size Modifiers???

[Sorrowdusk]

I used to think they only applied as a bonus or a penalty to your AC (making you harder to hit if smaller, and easier if bigger) but now I am looking at this from the SRD, something I've never seen before.


Attack Bonus
Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is:
Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modifier
With a ranged weapon, your attack bonus is:
Base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier + size modifier + range penalty

Granted most player races (okay Gnomes and Haflings, but I never played one) are medium this rule is usually irrelevant to them. But I dont get it at all, why the penalty on attacks for big guys, regardless of what size the thing is that they're fighting? And why on "weapons", does it not apply to natural attacks? I've never noticed it before but looking through the entries now I can see its been figured in there.

Wouldnt the toughest enemy in the world be a swarm army of some kind of super small, but super strong mini-fighters or micro-monks with monk weapons?

Also what are all the things size modifier actually applies to?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

It comes down to how large your target is to hit.

If your target is much larger than you, you should have an easier time hitting it. If your target is much smaller than you, it would be harder to hit.

"He can't hit the broad side of a barn" is an expression that states that someone should be able to hit the broad side of a barn, because it is so big.

 

[emoplato]

Larger creatures also suffer the same AC penalty in attack. One thing you need to remember though in the world of combat maneuver checks bigger is better. They get scaling +4 bonuses both to succeed and resist(of course smaller creatures get that as penalties). Plus they also get more reach and often are little faster allowing them to get a tactical edge to strike first.

 

[Hassassin]

Wouldnt the toughest enemy in the world be a swarm army of some kind of super small, but super strong mini-fighters or micro-monks with monk weapons?

Their weapons would be small enough not to do much damage, though.

Also what are all the things size modifier actually applies to?

Attack rolls (bonus from small size)
AC (bonus from small size)
Bull rush (bonus from large size)
Disarm (bonus from large size)
Grapple checks (bonus from large size)
Overrun (bonus from large size)
Sunder (bonus from large size)
Trip (bonus from large size)

Not all the bonuses are equal. For example, a large creature gets -1 attack, -1 AC, +4 grapple and a bonus/penalty on disarm that also depends on the opponent's size.

(Did I forget any?)

 

[Devin Sarter]

Why size mods are what they are

The PHB explains size modifier affect attack and Ac Equally so as to cancel each other out. if 2 halflings are fighting, they both have a +1 to attacks and a +1 to hit, so the bonus to hit cancels the +1 to Ac so its as easy for a small character to hit another small Character as it is for 2 Medium characters to hit each other. Similarly, large characters get negatives because it's harder to hit something the smaller it is, but the size adjustments to Ac and To Hit are always equal to keep balance.

Sidebar on page 20 of the PHB states:
"A Small character gets a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus
on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks. The bonus on
attacks results from the fact that it’s really relative size that matters in
determining attack chances. It’s no harder for a halfling to hit another
halfling than it is for a human to hit another human, because the
attacking halfling’s bonus on attack rolls counteracts the defending
halfling’s bonus to Armor Class. Likewise, a halfling has an easy time
hitting a human, just as a human has an easy time hitting an ogre, and
an ogre has an easy time hitting a giant."

 

[Celebrim]

Wouldnt the toughest enemy in the world be a swarm army of some kind of super small, but super strong mini-fighters or micro-monks with monk weapons?

Yes, it would. But, the monster/conversion construction guidelines were supposed to prevent that from ever happening. In theory, dropping a size class meant that on average your STR and CON took a -4 penalty, and your DEX went up only +2. So virtually anything below Tiny size should have STR and CON near 1 or it would be incorrectly designed. But yes, in theory you could create fine sized creatures with high STR and high CON and they would in fact be totally broken because per the RAW, being small is almost entirely a positive thing with few drawbacks.

With that in mind, it's important to note that the RAW twisted the rules to make Halflings and Gnomes play much more like medium creatures. Small size is a tremendous advantage and yet the small sized PC's pay almost nothing for it. Halflings only get a -2 penalty to strength and no penalty to CON. Moreover, the rules give Small sized creatures the same reach as medium sized creatures (made worse by the weapon size changes of 3.5e), so you don't even pay the reach penalty. So yeah, if you were building a race with point buy, 'Small' would be a power gamers choice.

Also what are all the things size modifier actually applies to?

Bonus to hit.
Bonus to AC.
+4 Bonus to Hide per category below medium.
-4 Bonus to Grapple checks per category below medium, the only penalty that is enforced by the rules themselves for being small.
In theory, reduced movement rate. Smaller creatures are supposed to be slower. However, like the theory that small creatures should be made with less CON and STR, this suggestion is observed mainly in the breach.

By the rules, about the only thing you can do to a small creature is grapple, pin, and squash it. This can be prevented with sufficient Escape Artist skill.

My house rules make being small much more problematic, because in addition to the above, your size gives you a bonus to hit points and sets the minimum hit points at which you die. A small sized creature generally has 5 less hit points than a medium sized creature, and all small PC races have penalties on CON as well - lining them up with the suggested monster creation rules. A fine sized creature might be hard to hit, but it's squishable. There simply are no high hit points or high strength fine sized creatures in my game.

Indeed, in line with stories like 'Puss and Boots', it's even dangerous to shapechange into a fine sized creature, because the bonus hit points for size category change with you. Under my rules, the large sized ogre lost effectively 24 hit points when tricked into changing into a mouse.

 

[Greenfield]

Don't forget that larger weapons do more damage and smaller ones do less.

The other advantage of size is Reach: The ability to AoO an opponent before they can close to striking distance is HUGE, particularly with feats like Large and In Charge, or Improved Trip.

It's so big that many consider Improved Trip for a large or enlarged PC to be "cheating" (or was that "Cheesy"?)

The authors put a hole in that rule though: Medium creatures don't get a Reach advantage over smaller opponents.

Okay, Tiny creatures technically have a 2 1/2 foot reach, so AoO might apply if they have to move into your square, but I don't know anyone who actually plays that they do. Probably because the miniatures don't fit in the same square, so nobody thinks about that.

Even so, Medium v Small includes no Reach factor.