Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh: Any suggestions?

[Ziona]

I downloaded the module The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh (& the 2 modules that followed) as well as the conversion from this site. For those who have run the conversion, I was just wondering if there was anything you might suggest updating (that isn't covered in the conversion) or any tips on running the module.

I noticed it does not have a map of the town or names of the citizens & such. I have started working on these things myself, but I was just wondering what others have done when they ran this module.

Did you like it? Did players respond well to it?

I have heard that it has a great story line, but I'm just starting to read it now.

TIA for your suggestions!

 

[Joshua Randall]

Because of the nature of 1st edition D&D versus 3rd/3.5 edition, most of the encounters in a straitforward conversion are really deadly. So, look at seriously toning down the EL (encounter levels) to make them appropriate for your party. Assuming you do that, you'll also need to adjust downwards the treasure level.

That said, I love, love, LOVE this module series. I've run it numerous times for a variety of groups, and they've all enjoyed it. Some thoughts follow.

* There's no map of the town of Saltmarsh. You can use pretty much any coastal town map you want, however. If you're into role-playing and world development, there can be a lot of interaction between the PCs and the townsfolk. Especially given the built-in hook involving Ned Shakeshaft the Assassin....

* As written, the connection between the Saltmarsh-based smugglers and the Sea Ghost-based smugglers may be hard for the PCs to figure out. In particular, the coded signaling system. Consider allowing comprehend languages to work, or a Decipher Script check. It's vital that the PCs make the connection and have a way to fool the Sea Ghost long enough to board it.

* Don't have all the Sea Ghost pirates come running to a fight. This can lead to an enormously complex combat involving way too many participants. Instead, just let those on the upper decks help each other, while those in the lower decks remain in their areas.

* For Danger at Dunwater, the adventure can end quickly and abruptly if the PCs are diplomatic with the lizardfolk right from the start. For that reason, definitely look into using the side adventure involving the giant crocodile. You might also whip up some more side adventures the PCs have to do in order to impress the locathah and merfolk enough for them to join the alliance. The PCs absolutely need to level up several times before hitting The Final Enemy.

* As for that module, I would strongly urge you not to play it as written, with two of the levels flooded. It's just too much of a burden on the PCs. The sahuagin are deadly enough without the added advantage of being in their native element. (You might, however, consider flooding selected areas, such as the temple and the arena.)

* Emphasize to the PCs, either in- or out-of-character, that their mission in the sahuagin lair is recon. Not fighting. If they attempt to engage every shark-man they meet, they're going to get clobbered. I would even go so far as to let the PCs know that they will get zero XP for enemies defeated, and base all XP on achieving story-related goals. (These are spelled out in the module.)

See here for more discussion
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89262

 

[Ziona]

Thanks so much for the reply! Both your info & the link to the other thread are very helpful.

I had started my first campaign over a year ago & handed it over to my husband when I was pregnant (too much going on for me to concentrate & read my modules). Now that baby is here, I'm really interested in running another campaign & SSoSM seemed pretty cool. Glad to hear it's so much fun. I love the haunted house & seafaring stuff. (My last campaign was very piratey, so I was interested in returing to that sort of feel for the game).

Thanks again. The info is very much appreciated!

 

[Joshua Randall]

You're welcome. Glad to help.

One of my favorite things about the U-series modules are the little details, mostly just for the DM's benefit, that make things seem more real. For example, the sahuagin queen who is berating her handmaiden for stealing an earring, not knowing that the earring is simply misplaced and is lying on the ground nearby. The PCs will likely never know about this little domestic scene, but it always brings a smile to my DM-face.

If you're doing a piratey campaign, the PCs might be tempted to join the Sea Ghosts in their smuggling and weapons-running! That would certainly be an interesting twist. The PCs could then have another entre into the lizardfolk affair (to deliver them weapons), and then -- one hopes -- decide to join the lizardfolk / locathah / merfolk alliance against the greater sahuagin menace. It might also be amusing to let the PC pirates extort the town of Saltmarsh: "Pay up, or we'll lead the sahuagin right to your doorsteps!" Sometimes it's fun to be a bit evil.

 

[Capellan]

A friend ran conversions of these three modules as the 'backbone' of the early stages of his campaign. You can see (one version of) how that turned out in the "In Hextor's Name" link, below (Sinister Secret begins with the '2nd Report').

Some comments:
- the 'must find' secret doors in the ruins can be a problem for the narrative
- like most 1E modules, it has several 'save or die' moments (green slime, rot grubs etc); consider eliminating or toning these down
- also like a lot of 1E modules, the adventures tend to throw lots of money at the group, then have people make them give it back (eg you get asked to deal with the lizardfolk, and the villagers try to charge you to send you down there on a boat; or you get taxed, and so on). PCs don't like this
- if Dunwater is set up as a combat mission, the transition to diplomacy may not happen in time to save the PCs, and/or may feel like really clunky rail-roading. I've played Dunwater twice, and both times it's felt unsatisfying for that reason.
- I am less than impressed with the 3rd module (I find the Sahuagin's lack of readiness contrived and unrealistic, and again success largely depends on finding a secret chamber. In Hextor's Name shows what can happen in a campaign when things go wrong )

 

[Joshua Randall]

Agree with pretty much everything Capellan says. Some possible solutions:

* Green slime and rot grubs are no longer the 'save or die' menace they were in 1st edition. So I'd leave them in.
* You definitely need to tone down (way down) the amount of money given out. Use the DMG guidelines for treasure per EL.
* Instead of setting up Dunwater as a combat mission, set it up as an investigation. So the PCs have found out that the lizardfolk are acquiring weapons. Why? "Just because", or to attack someone? If the latter, whom? You can use Oceanus here to help guide the PCs towards an investigation rather than an assault. Also, tone down the Saltmarsh town council so they are less quick to jump to the conclusion that the lizardfolk are planning an attack.
* If the PCs do end up attacking and slaughtering the lizardfolk, so be it. The modules outline the consequences of that. PCs need to learn that their actions have consequences, and Dunwater can teach that in spades.
* I don't have a problem with the sahuagin's lack of readiness. Even unprepared, they are a deadly menace. You can rationalize it by saying that are so confident in their preparations that they've grown complacent. Also, their god Sekolah has not yet given the sign that they should commence their wave of terror.
* Don't make the PCs dependent upon the secret room. Either don't flood the fortress -- in which case the PCs don't need all the underwater survival gear -- or redistribute the gear to places where it's easier to find. Alternatively, let Elmo the wizard be less cryptic in his remarks. Again alternatively, eliminate the entire Elmo sub-plot (you wanna talk about contrived, not that is contrived!).
* In addition to or instead of a recon mission into the sahuagin lair, let the PCs know that one option is to assassinate the sahuagin leader -- and then beat a hasty retreat. This would be a dangerous mission, but it could cripple the sahuagin temporarily (as others vie for leadership), allowing the allied forces to make their attack.
* Remember to give the PCs a lot of story award XP for Final Enemy! They deserve it if they survive. Remember also that by the rules, evading or bypassing sahuagin guard posts can count as overcoming the challenge, and should thus earn XP approrpriate to the sahuagin's CR.

 

[Capellan]

* Instead of setting up Dunwater as a combat mission, set it up as an investigation. So the PCs have found out that the lizardfolk are acquiring weapons. Why? "Just because", or to attack someone? If the latter, whom? You can use Oceanus here to help guide the PCs towards an investigation rather than an assault. Also, tone down the Saltmarsh town council so they are less quick to jump to the conclusion that the lizardfolk are planning an attack.

This would help a lot, I think. Both times I have played, the situation has been presented as "lizardmen are buying weapons! they must plan to attack us!", which leads to a pretty direct approach from the group.

* If the PCs do end up attacking and slaughtering the lizardfolk, so be it. The modules outline the consequences of that. PCs need to learn that their actions have consequences, and Dunwater can teach that in spades.

My concern is more with the PCs getting slaughtered than the lizardfolk

At the level the PCs will be when they do this, things can go badly very quickly. If they don't surrender or escape in time, you can end up with a TPK (the lizardfolk have little reason not to kill their attackers, after all)

If the group goes in with a more investigate/diplomacy feel than a straight attack, this should be less of an issue. But if they insist on violence as the solution ...

* I don't have a problem with the sahuagin's lack of readiness. Even unprepared, they are a deadly menace. You can rationalize it by saying that are so confident in their preparations that they've grown complacent. Also, their god Sekolah has not yet given the sign that they should commence their wave of terror.

I have issues with the LE, high-Int, high-Wis Sahuagin setting up their defences so badly. And narratively, it makes no sense: Dunwater (should have) taught the PCs to expect (or at least, plan for) a rapid and organised response to any incursion.

As an aside, my contingency plan for the raid last time was that if things went bad, we should pull out, wait for them to send troops to look for us, and jump them. Take the leader of the troops alive, and torture the information out of them. We didn't get to do it, due to some in-character conflict, but I think a plan like that might work. And it makes a lot more sense than trying to explore the base, in a lot of ways.

 

[qstor]

Good tips guys thanks..

I found a map online one time for the town of Saltmarsh if you want to expand the module.

Erik Mona has some notes in the "Best of Greyhawk" AOL folders on Canonfire.com under downloads for what he did to expand the module in the Greyhawk setting as well.

Mike

 

[Joshua Randall]

My concern is more with the PCs getting slaughtered than the lizardfolk

At the level the PCs will be when they do this, things can go badly very quickly. If they don't surrender or escape in time, you can end up with a TPK (the lizardfolk have little reason not to kill their attackers, after all)

On the contrary, the lizardfolk have every reason not to kill their attackers, especially if their attackers are a typical human and demi-human adventuring party. The lizardfolk are desperate for allies -- indeed, the only reason they haven't already approached Saltmarsh for help is that the aquatic races believe humans (and dwarves, elves, etc.) to be too weak to help in a fight against the sahuagin.

Now a troop of air-breathers assaults the lizardfolk lair, and are defeated and captured. Why are the air-breathers here? Can they be... coerced... into revealing information? (This could be quite a tense role-playing situation: the lizardfolk trying to pry info out of the PCs, who are in turn trying to figure out what the lizardfolk are up to!) Better yet, if the lizardfolk treat the humans well, could the humans convince the town of Saltmarsh to help?

Perhaps the lizardfolk don't entirely trust these captive adventurers. Well, there just happens to be a nasty giant crocodile making trouble nearby... it's a win/win situation for the lizardfolk: either the PCs eliminate the giant croc, in which case they have proven their prowess and worthiness to join the alliance; or the giant croc eats the PCs, in which case the lizardfolk are no worse off than they were to begin with.

But even once the lizardfolk trust the PCs, I would make the PCs earn the trust of the visiting locathah and merfolk ambassadords. The trick is to find a way to do this without it seeming like Everquest -- you don't want something like, "The locathah ambassador says he will only trust you if you get McGuffin Item X from Location Y." Perhaps the locathah needs to be convinced via Bluff or Diplomacy to trust the PCs, and perhaps a PC with ranks in Knowledge (local) [that's the one for humanoids, right?] gets a bonus on his check. On the other hand, perhaps the merfolk challenges a strong PC to a wrestling match... in the water, where the PC takes penalties while fighting but the merfolk does not.

Meanwhile, the old lizardfolk cleric (I might actually make him an Adept under 3.0/3.5 rules) wants to discuss arcane matters with the PC spellcasters... there are tons of role-playing possibilities in Danger at Dunwater. You've just got to be creative. Remember, these are advanced, civilized lizardfolk: they speak Common and use weapons. (Although there is a more primitive faction that thinks that's the wrong path -- and yet more roleplaying could be the intra-tribe conflict coming to the surface as some lizardfolk oppose any alliance with humans!)

I have issues with the LE, high-Int, high-Wis Sahuagin setting up their defences so badly.

Well, sheesh, Capellan. In that case the sahuagin should have attacked Saltmarsh already and obliterated it. Either you allow the PCs to get some kind of drop on the sahuagin, or there's no adventure.

And narratively, it makes no sense: Dunwater (should have) taught the PCs to expect (or at least, plan for) a rapid and organised response to any incursion.

Yes, it should have. Which is why the PCs must be made aware the the sahuagin are even more organized than the lizardfolk, and far more ruthless. They should be able to get this information from Oceanus, or the lizardfolk, or any of the other aquatic race's ambassadors. So if the PCs blunder into Final Enemy without being very well prepared -- then they deserve a TPK.

As an aside, my contingency plan for the raid last time was that if things went bad, we should pull out, wait for them to send troops to look for us, and jump them. Take the leader of the troops alive, and torture the information out of them. We didn't get to do it, due to some in-character conflict, but I think a plan like that might work. And it makes a lot more sense than trying to explore the base, in a lot of ways.

I would say that even a well-informed sahuagin leader doesn't necessarily know everything about the defenses. And when you get down to specific questions like "how wide are the corridors leading from the third guardroom to the sea-cave" -- I mean, who can remember that? Especially under torture? Unless you're playing a evil-ish campaign (and I know you are, Capellan), you don't want the PCs to be using torture to get information. You want them to use investigation, or stealth, or a heroic hit and run to buy time for the wizard to use clairvoyance or arcane eye....

I found a map online one time for the town of Saltmarsh

Ooh! Give us a URL, man!

Incidentally, the map of the Village of Poisson from WotC's Map-A-Week section would work for Saltmarsh. Of course you have to get past the really lame pun (poisson = fish, in French).

 

[Capellan]

Well, sheesh, Capellan. In that case the sahuagin should have attacked Saltmarsh already and obliterated it. Either you allow the PCs to get some kind of drop on the sahuagin, or there's no adventure.

I don't think it follows that the sahuagin should have attacked already. They could still be preparing. The preparations might not be finished.

On the other hand, elementary things like a method to sound an alarm through the whole base should be in place.

As for getting the drop on the sahuagin - I'd say the secret room is the perfect way to do this, but the PCs need to be aware it is there. Both times I've played it, we were not told in-character of its existence. If the PCs know ahead of time that there is probably a secure location they can retreat to, it gives them the edge they need, without needing to rationalise all kinds of sloppiness on the part of the sahuagin.

(One thing we should keep in mind here is that I am giving the view of someone who has only played the module - not read it, so I am going on hearsay from the DM. Just FYI.)

Yes, it should have. Which is why the PCs must be made aware the the sahuagin are even more organized than the lizardfolk, and far more ruthless. They should be able to get this information from Oceanus, or the lizardfolk, or any of the other aquatic race's ambassadors. So if the PCs blunder into Final Enemy without being very well prepared -- then they deserve a TPK.

My issue is not that they would deserve a TPK (they would, and in our case, did ). My issue is that, as soon as things go even the slightest bit wrong, you have no sane option but to run (unless you know about the secret room), because everything points to you being swiftly hunted down and crushed. This means that, unless the first encounter goes really well, the recon mission comes to a sudden halt very early on. At which point capture and interrogation of a sahuagin are a decent 2nd option.

So, on review, I'd suggest that the DM consider telling the PCs about the room, and its rough location, and changing the style of the intrusion to a case of 'can you find it and hide before they locate and destroy you?', at least initially.

Reducing the amount of flooding and the amount of 'plot friendly' magic items are also good ideas.