D&D 5E Siege weapons

[brehobit]

Humm,
I'd never really looked at siege weapons in 5e before, but playing a game soon where they will likely matter. They are curious, because they have a fixed attack bonus. More like traps that just need some actions spent in fact.

So, do you get a stat bonus for the shooter on the damage of that "ranged attack"? Do feats like sharpshooter work with it?

I think we are in a "DM judgement" place, but I'm curious if there is actually a clear answer (RAW) on this.

 

[Paraxis]

RAW: they are ranged weapon attacks, so things like sharpshooter, archery fighting style, and sneak attack apply. You could argue that the weapon master feat could give you proficiency in different siege weapons and allow you to gain proficiency bonus to attack. It never mentions ability modifier used to attack just the fixed value like you mentioned.


In practice, most should be rewritten especially indirect fire ones or the ones that should be doing AoE damage not expressed as single target damage. Firing a ballista or cannon is different than manning a catapult/trebuchet team.

 

[Thyrwyn]

As much as I usually agree with Paraxis, I disagree with his view of RAW on this one: By RAW Sharpshooter, Archery Style, etc... only apply to Ranged Weapons, not Ranged Weapon Attacks. Sharpshooter, for example, does not apply to a Thrown Melee Weapon, even though that is a Ranged Attack. Javalins are Melee Weapons, and are listed in the MM as Melee or Ranged Weapon Attack (see Orc, p. 246).

This was brought to my attention during the "Chucking Daggers..." thread. I disagree with it, but that is RAW.

By RAW, since they are not identified as either Ranged Weapons or Melee Weapons they are neither. They are Siege Weapons. I expect that to be RAI, also, but have no evidence to back that up other than the fact that they are not clearly called out as either, and some of them (Ram, Cauldron, etc...) are clearly not Ranged Weapons. So I would go for RAF (TM).

 

[Paraxis]

@Thyrwn, I can see that.

This is one of those cases where vague rules open to interpretation can cause issues. If one wanted to argue that siege weapons are ranged weapons I would point out this section from page 146 of the PHB.

Every weapon is classified as either melee or ranged. A melee weapon is used to attack a target within 5 feet of you, whereas a ranged weapon is used to attack a target at a distance.

So if there are only two categories melee or ranged, siege weapons for the most part fall under the ranged category. But seeing them as separate and independent since they are in the DMG I could get behind as well.

As most things that are vague, play with what is fun at your table. For me I like the idea of most direct fire type siege weapons being able to be used just like any other ranged weapon, and at the time I do have catapults and other indirect siege weapons I will most likely rewrite them as being more area of effect things, and not weapons.

 

[Thyrwyn]

[MENTION=13009]Paraxis[/MENTION]: I agree 100%

 

[brehobit]

Yep. My sense is that RAW is really unclear. I think we are in "DM call" range. At least unless we get some errata here.

I've got to say, I find it odd the way the siege engine stuff is laid out. As far as I can tell, a few well-placed arrow shots can take out a cannon (just need to do enough damage). The fixed attack also sort of makes sense if you are thinking of the PCs as targets. Less so if you are thinking of them as users of said weapons.

Mark

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Since aiming a siege weapon is about maths and triangulation and engineering, not about agility, then INT would be an appropriate ability score to use.

 

[PnPgamer]

Also do remember that castle walls hardness rules have changed a bit. Chevk them out on dmg... Page 247. Damage threshold.

 

[Athinar]

There are sub categories to Melee and Range

Pg 147, Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that that you would use for the melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you can use your Strength, but if you throw your dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger is has the finesse property.

Javelins has the "Thrown" property so it too can be a Ranged Attack - fits Range Weapon and Melee per "Thrown" page 147

so add Thrown Weapons into the "Range Weapons as well

DMG came out after the Players handbook so the Siege Weapons was not in the Players handbook, but has Weapon written into the Siege Weapons description

We use the Weapon Master Feat to add Siege Weapons

Ballista is a massive Crossbow that fires heavy bolts. Fits "Crossbow" in the Range Weapon list and there is nothing in the Sneak Attack that says it has to be your Dexterity to hit but has to be a finesse or Range Weapon

Pg 147 Range. A weapon that can be used to make a ranged attack has a range shown in parentheses after the ammunition or thrown property. The range lists two numbers. The first is the weapon's normal range in feet, and the second indicates the weapon's maximum range. When attacking a target beyond normal range, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. You can't attack a target beyond the weapon's long range.

Nothing about what you have to use to hit with, your Dexterity or the +6 to hit Ballista (and add your proficiency to the +6)