D&D 5E Should DnDBeyond include an Encounter Simulator?

Clint_L

Legend
Thinking about the various threads discussing better ways of doing CR got me wondering whether DnDBeyond should include an encounter simulator, and whether that would be feasible. A big problem with CR rating is that it doesn't take into account how particular creatures weigh up against particular adventuring parties, so an encounter that is very challenging for one group can be a cakewalk for another of the same level.

DnDBeyond already includes an excellent encounter builder. You toggle on whichever party will be having the encounter, and then add and remove monsters while it calculates the challenge rating. The problem is that it calculates it using the very basic system from the current DMG...but why does it have to? Since it has all the data, surely it wouldn't be that hard for it to be running simulated encounters behind the scene to give you a much better idea of how challenging this creature or group of creatures will be for this particular party. Would it?
 

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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Thinking about the various threads discussing better ways of doing CR got me wondering whether DnDBeyond should include an encounter simulator, and whether that would be feasible. A big problem with CR rating is that it doesn't take into account how particular creatures weigh up against particular adventuring parties, so an encounter that is very challenging for one group can be a cakewalk for another of the same level.

DnDBeyond already includes an excellent encounter builder. You toggle on whichever party will be having the encounter, and then add and remove monsters while it calculates the challenge rating. The problem is that it calculates it using the very basic system from the current DMG...but why does it have to? Since it has all the data, surely it wouldn't be that hard for it to be running simulated encounters behind the scene to give you a much better idea of how challenging this creature or group of creatures will be for this particular party. Would it?
Yes, I believe it would difficult (if not impossible). Because the simulator couldn't take player knowledge, attitude, or skill into account. As an example at the barest minimum...

The party of 7 PCs has 4 characters that have the capability of casting healing magic, and there are 6 Potions of Cure Wounds spread out amongst the PCs. Now the program knows that these spells and potions are available to the party... But for an effective simulator to work, it would have to be able to accurately guesstimate which of the players of said PCs are going to spend their actions using said healing to counteract the damage that the simulator has averaged out as having been dished out at the appropriate times to be effective and not have any PCs lose actions for being knocked unconscious.

But how would the simulator be able to do that? Is it going to know that at this particular table most of those players don't want to waste their turns healing but instead are going to continue to attack because that's more fun? Or will it know that the one player that is all about just healing the other PCs happens to be the one PC that failed its saving throw against paralyzation that was cast at it, and now is incapable of using their actions to heal anyone, thus rendering the party even lighter on recovery? Or maybe some of the players are new to the game and don't even know when they should be forsaking their action to cast a heal spell? And even if they do... which PC is the one best to receive said healing?

These are all things just in regards to a single aspect of D&D combat that is dependent on what the players choose to do with their turns and has nothing to do with the programming or numbers of "encounter building". Now think of all the multitudes of spells that can be cast and monster actions to be taken... and whether or not the simulator can guesstimate whether those players know how best to use said things and against the proper enemies at the proper times, etc. etc.

Can't speak for anyone else... but I think any simulator is just given people a false sense of security, just like "encounter builders" do. For me... it's better to just become a more experienced DM and rely on personal instincts-- because that specific DM has a better chance at guesstimating what their players are going to do and when, and be able to build encounters that have a better shot at achieving whatever results the DM is hoping to get from that fight then any rando programming person at D&D Beyond is going to.

But that's just my opinion... I could be wrong.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Since it has all the data, surely it wouldn't be that hard for it to be running simulated encounters behind the scene to give you a much better idea of how challenging this creature or group of creatures will be for this particular party. Would it?

Uh, yes, it would be "that hard".

You're talking about having an engine that will enact the mechanics of the entire ruleset, movement and all, and make combat decisions for each monster and character.

If you then added graphics, it'd basically be the engine for a full D&D computer game. And then what you are really testing is not the power of the characters vs monsters, but how smart the "AI" for combat choices is.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I think something like the defunct Kobold Fight Club would be a nice inclusion (and easier than what's described above).

But I'd like it after they get the missing content from Tasha's added. It's been five years now, WotC.
 

Dausuul

Legend
Uh, yes, it would be "that hard".

You're talking about having an engine that will enact the mechanics of the entire ruleset, movement and all, and make combat decisions for each monster and character.

If you then added graphics, it'd basically be the engine for a full D&D computer game. And then what you are really testing is not the power of the characters vs monsters, but how smart the "AI" for combat choices is.
Exactly.

I've played around with the idea, but there's just way too much to implement. With modern AI to make the play decisions, I can see how it could be done, but it would not be at all easy to build, and it would not be cheap, either. And, as you say, its results would still have to be calibrated to the skill of the players.
 

I think something like the defunct Kobold Fight Club would be a nice inclusion (and easier than what's described above).

But I'd like it after they get the missing content from Tasha's added. It's been five years now, WotC.
We already have that with the Encounter Builder. I imagine the encounter builder will be modified come the new DMG
 

mellored

Legend
Uh, yes, it would be "that hard".
It really depends on how in depth the simulation is.

Not too hard to have a simple goblin stand and swing at a simple fighter, with a wizard casting simple damage spells.

But if you want to add spiritual guardians and monks that grapple and drag a beholder with anti-magic zone around... not reasonable.
 

Gorck

Prince of Dorkness

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