D&D (2024) Should 2024D&D split skills into two categories*

[Horwath]

In D&D 5E there are Skills and there are skills.

Some are clearly more useful than others, perhaps half of the skills(or more) can be relegated to power level of tools(and make them "cheaper" in terms of character resource pool)

Prime skills:

Athletics, include 2014 rules for grapple, trip, push again based on Athletics roll
Acrobatics, include option to use grapple, trip, push with Acrobatics, but only on targets smaller in size. This still gives Athletics primary use against stronger opponents.
Stealth,
Thievery(sleight of hand combined with thief tools)
Perception(include all Traps into this, not some arbitrary split between Perception and Investigation)
Survival,

Secondary/roleplay skills:
Arcana,
History,
Investigation,
Nature,
Religion,
Animal handling,
Medicine,
Insight,
Deception,
Intimidation,
Persuasion,
Perform,


Changes to feats:

Skilled:
+2 primary skills,
+4 secondary skills,

or
+1 ASI,
+1 primary skill,
+2 secondary skills,


Skill Expert:

+1 ASI,
+1 primary skill expertise,
+2 secondary skill expertise,

This way, and proficiency granted by class/race/background can be used for 1 proficiency in primary skills or 2 proficiencies in secondary skills.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That is probably what the designers tried to do with the skills/tool proficiency split.

And I do agree that it still needs work. But I guess, for 5.5 the ship has sailed.
I hope at least xanathar's expanded tool proficiencies will find their way into the core rules.

For a ptentoal 6e, I am totally in line woth you. Maybe I'd try to find a single prime skill for every stat.

I would say:

STR Athletics to initiate grapple
DEX Thievery including thieves tools and sleight of hand.
CON Endurance which is also used for concentration.
INT Investigation including search and streetwise.
WIS Perception including alertness.
CHA Influence including every cha skill

 

[Horwath]

That is probably what the designers tried to do with the skills/tool proficiency split.

And I do agree that it still needs work. But I guess, for 5.5 the ship has sailed.
I hope at least xanathar's expanded tool proficiencies will find their way into the core rules.

For a ptentoal 6e, I am totally in line woth you. Maybe I'd try to find a single prime skill for every stat.

I would say:

STR Athletics to initiate grapple
DEX Thievery including thieves tools and sleight of hand.
CON Endurance which is also used for concentration.
INT Investigation including search and streetwise.
WIS Perception including alertness.
CHA Influence including every cha skill

For 6E(even for 2024, but as you say that ship has sailed) I hope for removal of Con as stat.

In 5E it can removed, Con saves moved to STR, give everyone +2 HP per level more, reduce point buy for 5 pts, and no one would miss Con as stat at all.

tools are tertiary category with very limited usage.
Except thief tools, that is why I removed them and merged into Thievery(4E style).

 

[Krachek]

The OP prime skill should be made class features or use other mechanics not based on ability score and allowing expertise like boost.

At the time where Rogue and Bard was the only class having expertise, made some silly choice offer to PCs. MC into Rogue, to be better at grappling and pushing opponent for a fighter.

 

[Horwath]

The OP prime skill should be made class features or use other mechanics not based on ability score and allowing expertise like boost.

At the time where Rogue and Bard was the only class having expertise, made some silly choice offer to PCs. MC into Rogue, to be better at grappling and pushing opponent for a fighter.

Every class should get 1st level bonus skill proficiency and expertise in what that class should really be good at:

barbarian: athletics or survival
Bard: any Cha based skill
Cleric: religion
Druid: nature
Fighter: Athletics
Monk. Athletic, acrobatics or stealth
Paladin: religion or insight
ranger: stealth, perception or survival
Rogue: stealth or thievery
Sorcerer: Arcana or any cha skill
warlock: arcana or any cha skill
wizard: arcana

 

[Yaarel]

I prefer to see Perception and Athletics be abilities rather than skills.

Strength/Constitution
Dexterity/Athletics
Intelligence/Perception
Charisma/Wisdom


Con, Ath, Per, and Wis are the four main saving throws.

 

[GMMichael]

Every class should get 1st level bonus skill proficiency and expertise in what that class should really be good at:

barbarian: athletics or survival
Bard: any Cha based skill
Cleric: religion
Druid: nature
Fighter: Athletics
Monk. Athletic, acrobatics or stealth
Paladin: religion or insight
ranger: stealth, perception or survival
Rogue: stealth or thievery
Sorcerer: Arcana or any cha skill
warlock: arcana or any cha skill
wizard: arcana

But, classes already get proficiency in what they should really be good at: sword-swinging, spell-casting, armor-wearing, etc.

Expertise shouldn't be passed around because it's an anti-bounded accuracy rule (and shouldn't exist, really).

Have you looked into Level Up: Advanced 5e?

 

[Horwath]

But, classes already get proficiency in what they should really be good at: sword-swinging, spell-casting, armor-wearing, etc.

this is aimed at not being 100% combat focused.

Expertise shouldn't be passed around because it's an anti-bounded accuracy rule (and shouldn't exist, really).

bounded accuracy is for attacks/saves, not skills.
Expertise should not be part of attacks and saves, that we agree

Have you looked into Level Up: Advanced 5e?

Yeah, I have it.
At what do you aim at A5E?
Personally, I'm not a fan of "expertise die", especially that it starts with d4.

 

[mellored]

Athletics, include 2014 rules for grapple, trip, push again based on Athletics roll
Acrobatics, include option to use grapple, trip, push with Acrobatics, but only on targets smaller in size. This still gives Athletics primary use against stronger opponents.

Grapple and shove are now a saving throw.

So Athletics and Acrobatics have been demoted to "secondary".

 

[aco175]

Every class should get 1st level bonus skill proficiency and expertise in what that class should really be good at:

Would this be on top of what everyone gets with backgrounds? I'm not sure I would want to give more since people can already pick from the skills the classes are supposed to be good at when making the character.

I do agree that some skills are better in most situations and PCs should be able to get one of these and a couple of the situational ones. It also depends on the DM and what skills he rewards. I tend to use Investigation about equal to Perception and more when searching a room. I also reward Arcana, Nature, and Religion when dealing with people to get a bonus to things like Persuasion and Deception.