Henadic Theologian
Legend
Just a thought, but given they are still legal & from a PHB, but not in the 2024 PHB, should they still be in the 2025 SRD?
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D&D (2024) Should 2014 Half Elves and Half Orcs be added to the 2025 SRD?
- Thread starter Henadic Theologian
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Misanthrope Prime
Explorer
I've said this a few places but I'm mixed-race and I've always identified with half-elves and half-orcs. I particularly love Eberron's interpretation of half-elves, who have a distinctly unique culture. Having distinct mixed-race peoples and ethnicities are not "problematic", we have a word for them IRL: "Creole."
The way that mixed race/species characters were presented in the UA was extremely problematic, however, and it made me wonder if there was anyone who was mixed on the dev team.
Using the example of someone with black and Chinese heritage, they will often be told "oh you're not Chinese, you're just black" or "you don't act black enough, clearly you're Chinese." So when the rules say "pick one of your characters' two parents and have them 'count as' one of them", that really brings up some uncomfortable memories for people like me.
What I would've liked is for the PHB or DMG to have a side-bar for creating custom mixed-species mechanics, and then have the half-elf and half-orc as examples on how to build them, in much the same way that the Eladrin and Aasimar were given as examples on how to make a custom race in the 2014 DMG. That way, using the example of a half human, half elf character, we can then make a half human, half dwarf character, or even a half dragonborn, half tabaxi character.
The way that mixed race/species characters were presented in the UA was extremely problematic, however, and it made me wonder if there was anyone who was mixed on the dev team.
Using the example of someone with black and Chinese heritage, they will often be told "oh you're not Chinese, you're just black" or "you don't act black enough, clearly you're Chinese." So when the rules say "pick one of your characters' two parents and have them 'count as' one of them", that really brings up some uncomfortable memories for people like me.
What I would've liked is for the PHB or DMG to have a side-bar for creating custom mixed-species mechanics, and then have the half-elf and half-orc as examples on how to build them, in much the same way that the Eladrin and Aasimar were given as examples on how to make a custom race in the 2014 DMG. That way, using the example of a half human, half elf character, we can then make a half human, half dwarf character, or even a half dragonborn, half tabaxi character.
G
Guest 7031328
Guest
Misanthrope Prime explained the mixed kid growing up thing perfectly, the "you're not X, you don't act <thing> enough, you're THIS thing" nonsense. I was struggling to better explain my issue with the manner that the new PHB was handling it.
I understand that the term "half-<race>" is something that is being moved away from and I have no issue with that. My issue is the complete removal of it as a concept when it's always been a part of the game previously. Drop the term, no problem at all, but it would really be good for it to be supported mechanically and not just thrown completely away in a sidebar.
Someone else mentioned this in the other thread, but Level Up handles mixed heritage pretty well.
I understand that the term "half-<race>" is something that is being moved away from and I have no issue with that. My issue is the complete removal of it as a concept when it's always been a part of the game previously. Drop the term, no problem at all, but it would really be good for it to be supported mechanically and not just thrown completely away in a sidebar.
Someone else mentioned this in the other thread, but Level Up handles mixed heritage pretty well.
Remathilis
Legend
They are going to be available via the 2014 version. You can mix and match the two via the CC.
I guess I'm not comfortable with the idea of equating mixed ethnicity with mixed species and those species having their own special powers. Too much reliance in the past on stories of children disowned by their parents because of fantasy racism, or fantasy orphans that were the product of violence. Better in my opinion to have that be part of a player's PC background if they choose rather than baked into the rules.
Misanthrope Prime
Explorer
Having a character that's born "half X and half Y" is going to fall back on narratives about mixed-race people from history and culture. That's just called applicability. Doesn't matter if you're like half vampire or half witch.
Using Eberron as an example, we do NOT need to retread problematic or unpalatable ideas just because we're including mixed-species characters and, frankly, it's a bit hypocritical to want to avoid that narrative with half-elves but tieflings are basically built on that stigma despite being like .000005% devil. The Khoravar half-elves have their own culture that they are proud of, just as I am proud of my own multi-ethnic heritage and how it is expressed in my culture.
Fair point about tieflings, but still something I'd rather avoid in my game. Overall though, I don't see this is as a reason to not include them in the SRD. That would just be my preference in character design.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
From a representation viewpoint, I personally think they should have been in the PHB. But any answer I give will have nothing to do with that and solely will be based on what the SRD 5.2 is.
A System Reference Document.
Are they part of the system? No? Then there is absolutely no reason to include them in SRD 5.2. SRD 5.2 is the CC of the 2024 version of D&D. There is no valid logic that it should include rules that aren't a reference to that system.
Let me state that again, thoughts to "let's include something that isn't in these rules" is invalid. This is a reference for a system. Things not in that system aren't references. There's is zero way to argue otherwise and be correct.
Anyone who wants them, they are released in CC in SRD 5.1. Any developer can cleanly mix and match without a problem.
When(/if) they are in a future book, if contents of the book get released in CC then they will be in CC yet again, this time in some reference to SRD 5.2.
A System Reference Document.
Are they part of the system? No? Then there is absolutely no reason to include them in SRD 5.2. SRD 5.2 is the CC of the 2024 version of D&D. There is no valid logic that it should include rules that aren't a reference to that system.
Let me state that again, thoughts to "let's include something that isn't in these rules" is invalid. This is a reference for a system. Things not in that system aren't references. There's is zero way to argue otherwise and be correct.
Anyone who wants them, they are released in CC in SRD 5.1. Any developer can cleanly mix and match without a problem.
When(/if) they are in a future book, if contents of the book get released in CC then they will be in CC yet again, this time in some reference to SRD 5.2.
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