Sheating a sword and drawing a javelin

[Reaper Steve]

So, the thread about a Paladin having to engage an opponent in the same turn that he issues a divine challenge got me thinking about a Paladin making ranged attacks.

I do like the idea of a Paladin making a ranged attack at an opponent he couldn't otherwise engage. (the attack doesn't have to hit for the DC to stay in effect!)But this appears to be costly in action allotment...

The KotS Dragonborn Paladin carries a longsword and a heavy shield. He can't carry anything in the hand holding the heavy shield.

Let's say he marks a nonadjacent enemy and elects to throw a javelin at it. As I see it, there is only one combo of actions (not counting using action points) that will allow him to throw the javelin:
Minor action = divine challenge
Free action = drop sword
Move action (traded for minor) to draw a javelin
Standard action to make a ranged attack.

Thoughts?

Does that change if he carries a light shield? The rules state he can carry something in the shield hand, but it's certainly not ready to be used as the javelin is not an off-hand weapon. Would you rule that switching the javelin to his sword hand is:
A) a minor action (in line with drawing a weapon), or
B) a free action (since switching hands is clearly not as difficult as loading a crossbow, which is a minor action)?
The implication is that if switching hands is a free action, then the Paladin could use his minor action to sheate the sword rather than being required to use a free action to drop it.

I think Quick Draw would solve part of the problem:
Minor to DC
Move (traded for minor) to sheate the sword
Standard to draw and attack with the javelin

So, where am I really going with this? How about a Dwarf Paladin with Dwarven Weapon Training carrying a Battleaxe or Warhammer in one hand and a Handaxe or Throwing Hammer in the other?
-- He's immediately prepped for a melee or ranged attack, either with +2 damage.
-- After he throws the small one, he can freely use the big one's 'versatile' for another +1
-- He's just a minor action away from having another handaxe/throwing hammer in hand (or the Quick Draw feat will let him have it free as part of the attack! And he could still move.)
But is it worth it? I'd have to give up a shield or a two-handed weapon. It certainly seems like fun to me!

(And I thought I was going to make a Dragonborn Warlord...)

 

[generalhenry]

you have stumbled upon the one use paladins have for TWF

 

[FadedC]

It's probably less clunky if you marked him the previous round and have quick draw. Then you can drop the sword (free), draw and throw javelin (standard) pick up the sword (minor) and still move.

My fighter marks with his javelin all the time because he doesn't have to worry about the minor for challenge. But of course I can't use my challenge at range while a paladin can, so it's much less strong for me.

 

[Zaruthustran]

When I play a melee character in 4E, I never "carry" my melee weapon unless the adventure is in a very enclosed space. Instead, I walk around with a javelin in hand. It just makes sense to do so when you're in the open, and encounters will begin at range.

So you:

1. Challenge (minor action)
2. Chuck javelin (standard action)
3. Draw sword (move action --> minor action)

 

[Reaper Steve]

It's probably less clunky if you marked him the previous round and have quick draw. Then you can drop the sword (free), draw and throw javelin (standard) pick up the sword (minor) and still move.

Agreed, but I was trying to figure out how to legally mark an opponent that is bothering an ally that I could not end up adjacent to, but still engage it to cause it trouble.

Here's another one... say I want to carry a two-handed weapon... do I have to drop or sheathe that weapon to use a thrown weapon? Or can I assume the character can hold the two-hander in one hand while he makes the ranged attack with the other? (Either way, I recognize that we will have to spend a minor to draw the thrown weapon.)

 

[eamon]

Here's another one... say I want to carry a two-handed weapon... do I have to drop or sheathe that weapon to use a thrown weapon? Or can I assume the character can hold the two-hander in one hand while he makes the ranged attack with the other? (Either way, I recognize that we will have to spend a minor to draw the thrown weapon.)

Sure, you can hold it in one hand - you just can't wield it in one hand. Consider for example a staff wizard, esp. a small staff wizard, who's perfectly capable of holding and (and implement-wielding) his staff in just one hand while he'd need two to wield (as a weapon) his staff. If a weapon were particularly heavy and the character particularly weak, you might consider ad-hoc restrictions, but as a general rule, there's no reason you can't hold in one hand something you need two to wield. However, skimming through the book, the heaviest weapon they mention is a mere 12 lb, whereas a one-handed shield is 15... holding a weapon in one hand should pose no problems.

 

[Pickles JG]

We house ruled changing "grip" was a free action in 3.5 (in as much as it was not covered) & it seems the same will apply in 4.0. So moving your sword to your shield hand or holding 2h sword one handed = free action as is reversing the process. It makes light shields more attractive though they are better balanced now anyway. Still quick draw looks good for potion use & may be useful for heavy shield users.

 

[inati]

Agreed, but I was trying to figure out how to legally mark an opponent that is bothering an ally that I could not end up adjacent to, but still engage it to cause it trouble.

Here's another one... say I want to carry a two-handed weapon... do I have to drop or sheathe that weapon to use a thrown weapon? Or can I assume the character can hold the two-hander in one hand while he makes the ranged attack with the other? (Either way, I recognize that we will have to spend a minor to draw the thrown weapon.)

That's an interesting question. I would say that you would have to unwield (via dropping or sheathing) a two handed weapon in order to use a thrown weapon effectively. My reasoning would be, that it would just unbalance you or get in your way to the point that it prevents you from throwing the weapon.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Still quick draw looks good for potion use & may be useful for heavy shield users.

That's a good point. I think most people think that a minor action is all that is required to drink a potion.
Best I can tell, unless it's already in your hand, it takes two minor actions: the first to retrieve the item and a second to drink it.