Shapesand weight-to-volume question

[RUMBLETiGER]

I need help from someone more mathematically inclined than I.

Sandstorm, page 99 and 102-103 has the oh-so-useful item Shapesand.

On page 99, Shapesand sells for 100gp for 12lbs.

on page 102, it stats out how much Shapesand you can control based upon your wisdom score, in cubic feet. this reads, in part:

Wisdom Score Controllable Volume
1–3...............None
4–7...............1-ft. cube
8–11..............2-1/2-ft. cube
12–15............5-ft. cube
16–19............7-1/2-ft. cube
20–23............10-ft. cube
24+...............+2-1/2 ft per 4 points of Wisdom

I'm trying to figure, then, how much a 1-ft. cube of sand would weigh in pounds. Is it safe to assume the 100gp cost is for a single cubic foot? How much does alchemical sand weigh??

As an aside, I was unable to put a tag on the thread title like I'm normally able to. Anyone have an idea why the tag function is missing for me?

 

[kitcik]

In RL a cubic foot of sand is about 100lb.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

In RL a cubic foot of sand is about 100lb.

Thank you sir.

And so, to possess enough Shapesand to, lets say, control 5 cubic feet...
12,500lbs.
divided by 12...
1041 and 2/3 portions of Shapesand, for a total price of...

104,167gp.

Insane.

 

[Greenfield]

Well, according to Google, Sand weighs about 110 per cubic foot. Unless it's fine sand, in which case it's about 125 lbs per cubic foot. Moist sand weighs even more.

Now I don't know if Shapesand follows the same weight-to-volume rules as regular sand (though it sounds reasonable).

The cost, however, seems pretty unreasonable.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

The creation of Shapesand is pretty hazy, all I could find is that it is a DC 25 Alchemy check to make. I'm assuming one of the base ingredients is Sand. No info on price or time to make.

I've got no reason to assume Shapesand would weigh less than regular sand.

So... just crazy expensive.

Now, keep in mind 12lbs of sand should be enough to make a dagger, short sword, light shield, shovel, pickaxe, umbrella, stool, modest sculpture, immodest sculpture, short rope, crowbar, or bowling ball. it's still useful, but vastly under-powered, compared to what you could potentially do with a decent Wisdom score.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'd assume either

a) The 12 lbs 100 gp container is all you need no matter the volume your wis allows, and the sand just magically expands to fill the volume you need

or

b) Since a typical human has wis 10-11, I would use that as the baseline for how much volume a single gallon of shapesand can create. If you get less use out of it due to anemic wisdom, that's just cause you suck. Since the allowed volume for that wis is 2.5 cu. ft and past the wis 10 range each iteration goes up by 2.5 ft cubes each time, it becomes pretty simple to figure out how many gallons you need for larger volumes.

But using actual RL equivalants for the volume/weight? That'd just be crazy heavy/expensive. I'd rather just assume shapsand is much lighter than mundane sand and the item is actually functional at all..

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I'd assume either

a) The 12 lbs 100 gp container is all you need no matter the volume your wis allows, and the sand just magically expands to fill the volume you need

If this was the case, than a PC with a wisdom of 12 could make hemisphere walls, Full Plate armor with tower shields, a ladder able to scale a 50+ foot cliff, etc, etc, all for a 100gp item. That would be incredible.

b) Since a typical human has wis 10-11, I would use that as the baseline for how much volume a single gallon of shapesand can create. If you get less use out of it due to anemic wisdom, that's just cause you suck. Since the allowed volume for that wis is 2.5 cu. ft and past the wis 10 range each iteration goes up by 2.5 ft cubes each time, it becomes pretty simple to figure out how many gallons you need for larger volumes.

In this case, I can do all of the above with 200gp. Still incredible.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Incredible until an enemy unshapes it on you?

I agree though, used as seemingly intended it's kind of really crazy; used based on applying real world measurements to determine how much volume it can create, it becomes worthless. Not much middle ground. Ideally, a single gallon would expand to fit whatever volume you can make, but at the same time have limitations. At the very least, a maximum gp value on what it can create.

 

[kitcik]

In RL a cubic foot of sand is about 100lb.

Thank you sir.

And so, to possess enough Shapesand to, lets say, control 5 cubic feet...
12,500lbs.
divided by 12...
1041 and 2/3 portions of Shapesand, for a total price of...

104,167gp.

Insane.

If 1 cubic foot is 100lb, why is 5 cubic feet 12,500lb? Isn't it 500lb? That's a lot more reasonable.

Maybe it is late and I am missing the obvious.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

If 1 cubic foot is 100lb, why is 5 cubic feet 12,500lb? Isn't it 500lb? That's a lot more reasonable.

Maybe it is late and I am missing the obvious.

You're right, sort of. There's a difference between 5 cubic feet (five 1x1x1 foot cubes) and a 5-foot cube or 5 ft³ (a 5x5x5 foot cube, or 125 cubic feet). The volume a character with 12 Wis can control is the latter amount, so while Rumble said 5 cubic feet (which would only have been 500 lbs.), he calculated the volume and cost of the amount of sand that can be controlled correctly.