Shadow Blade

[Arabesu]

Does Shadow Blade from Bo9s really work the way I am interpreting it? Does it add Dex AND Strength to melee attacks with a shadow hand weapon while in shadow hand stance?

Doesn't that seem very strong for a relatively easy to qualify for feat? If I understand things correctly, doesn't this mean that a swordsage 4 can add Str, Dex, and Wis to damage? With spiked chain or a TWF build, this seems incredibly strong at low level and scales strongly at high level since ability enhancing items become trivially inexpensive around level 15 or so.

Combine this with a few levels of rogue, a few levels of swashbuckler and daring outlaw and TWF build can add sneak attack dice and Str+Wis+Dex+Int with primary hand, and sneak attack+Str*0.5+Wis+Dex+Int with off hand attacks. I think I know what my next PC will be...

 

[moritheil]

Does Shadow Blade from Bo9s really work the way I am interpreting it? Does it add Dex AND Strength to melee attacks with a shadow hand weapon while in shadow hand stance?

Doesn't that seem very strong for a relatively easy to qualify for feat? If I understand things correctly, doesn't this mean that a swordsage 4 can add Str, Dex, and Wis to damage? With spiked chain or a TWF build, this seems incredibly strong at low level and scales strongly at high level since ability enhancing items become trivially inexpensive around level 15 or so.

Combine this with a few levels of rogue, a few levels of swashbuckler and daring outlaw and TWF build can add sneak attack dice and Str+Wis+Dex+Int with primary hand, and sneak attack+Str*0.5+Wis+Dex+Int with off hand attacks. I think I know what my next PC will be...

Is a spiked chain a shadow hand weapon?

I wouldn't say that ability enhancing items become trivially inexpensive. Sure, a +2 is pocket change, but a +6 is 36,000 gp, and that adds up (as well as taking up item slots.) Higher modifiers mean you get into epic pricing.

 

[Someone]

Notice the feat summary; it mentions that you apply Dex instead of Str. Full text trumps summaries, however, but I think in this case the intention was to add only Dex, not both.

 

[Shazman]

I believe that the wording says you use dex instead of str not in addition to str. So a swashbuckler/swordsage with shadow blade could add dex, int, and wis to damage while in a shadow hand stance with a shadow hand weapon while using a shadow hand strike.

 

[Nifft]

So many things reward focusing on just one stat. It's nice to be rewarded for having several good stats.

At high levels, you focus on stats not just with items (which take valuable slots), but also with Inherent bonuses from very expensive Tomes or wishes.

Damage bonuses also aren't as good as attack bonuses, thanks to Two-Handed Power Attack. It's often better to get +4 to one Strength (for +2 to attack / +3 damage) than +2 to two different stats (for +1 or +2 to attack / +2 damage).

-- N

 

[Arabesu]

Yes, spiked chain is a shadow hand weapon.

 

[Arabesu]

Interesting, I hadn't noticed the difference between the description, that clearly indicates that it is a bonus, and the summary, that clearly states that it is a substitution.

I agree with Nifft, that rewarding multiple good abilities should be possible, I'm just surprised at how much of a boon it is so early. If the feat had prerequisite BAB +6 or something I'd understand. AFAIKT it only requires a shadow hand manuever and a shadow hand stance. Ie. any PC can take this combo with three feats, or a quick 1 level dip in swordsage.

And I beleive it can be COMBINED with two-handed power attack via the spiked chain.

 

[blargney the second]

This feat is fun! I threw a wererat warblade with this feat, the prereqs, and a spiked chain at my party... he was awesome.

 

[Nifft]

And I beleive it can be COMBINED with two-handed power attack via the spiked chain.

1/ Then it's four feats. (!)
2/ "Combined with Power Attack" meant "adds to attack bonus".

What this means is: consider you gain a +4 bonus to one ability score. Which one is the best choice?

a/ Two-handed power attack guy: Strength. He either gains +2 attack / +3 damage, or +0 attack / +7 damage. Flexibility is nice.

b/ TWF finesse shadow blade guy: Dexterity. He only gains a fixed +2 to attack / +2 to damage, but he gets enough attacks that the (small) damage boost adds up.

- - -

That's not to say Shadow Blade is weak. It's quite strong, especially in the hands of someone based around maxing Dexterity.

Also, Dexterity is a frighteningly awesome stat. Not only does it boost AC, a save, a lot of good skills, and with feats attack & damage, but it boosts your initiative, which starts out being good and later becomes über. Also, the TWF chain requires a good Dexterity, so TWF and Finesse are strongly paired, and Shadow Blade rewards both.

Anyway. I like Shadow Blade and would consider making a character based around it.

Cheers, -- N