Serpent Kingdoms - Sarrukh. CR 21?

[Avouz]

Did I miss something? The Sarrukh are potent adversaries, but they don't look anywhere near a CR 21 creature.

HP: 133
AC: 30
Attack: +23
F/R/W: 9/11/13
SR 20
Fear (DC 21)
Poison (DC 22)
A few Spell-like abilities, none over 4th level except teleport and wall of force (which are only 1/day.)

With stats like that, they might be a CR 10 or 12, but not a 21.

Anyone else notice this?

 

[Sammael]

Perhaps it's a misprint and it's supposed to be CR 11 (that's what it sounds like)?

 

[Arnwyn]

I'm at the office (thus I don't have my book with me), but what's the HD? Maybe the large number of feats have something to do with it.

But, yeah, I agree with you. CR 21 seems way too high.

 

[Avouz]

Perhaps it's a misprint and it's supposed to be CR 11 (that's what it sounds like)?

I'd agree, except that they make the same "misprint" three times. Once in the Sarruhk monster entry, once in the "Monsters by CR" table, and one of the Sarruhk NPCs is a cleric15 with a CR of 36 (i.e. 15+21)

I'm at the office (thus I don't have my book with me), but what's the HD? Maybe the large number of feats have something to do with it.

But, yeah, I agree with you. CR 21 seems way too high.

14d8, with 5 feats (no bonus.)

 

[Gez]

I'd agree, except that they make the same "misprint" three times. Once in the Sarruhk monster entry, once in the "Monsters by CR" table, and one of the Sarruhk NPCs is a cleric15 with a CR of 36 (i.e. 15+21)

You know, assuming they have some sort of, say, software that helps them generate the stats and sort stuff, like, maybe, a database; then you just need to do a typo once to affect everything.

 

[ruleslawyer]

I certainly hope that's what it is. I'd say the sarrukh is a reasonably balanced CR 11. It's worth noting that the CR for the sarrukh sample NPC is wrong anyway, since cleric levels are not associated class levels for the sarrukh and thus the CR should be 29 even given the (wrong) sarrukh base CR.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Does seem weak for 21. But 11 sounds to low, IMO: It can deal quite a bit of damage (including a nasty poisonous bite!) , are well protected (big DR, immune to fire, fear aura.

 

[kuje31]

KaeYoss, in case you missed it over on the WOTC boards Rich answered you.

Yeah, that 21 sure isn't right. It's my belief that 11 is the right answer. The sarrukh's got a good AC for 11, but its SR and spell-like abilities are about right on for CR 11.

quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by KaeYoss
The Sarrukh from Serpent Kingdoms are labeled with CR 21, but that seems fairly high. IMO, 11 would be closer to the spot but a little too low. Was it a typo or if not, what is the reasoning behind that 21?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
__________________
Rich Baker
Senior Designer
Roleplaying R&D
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

 

[ruleslawyer]

KaeYoss: I think that you could make as good an argument for CR 12 as CR 11, but that CR 13+ would be a reach. Compare this thing to the glabrezu demon (CR 13), for instance:

AC: 30 (sarrukh) vs. 27 (glabrezu)
Advantage sarrukh, but:
hp: 133 (sarrukh) vs. 174 (glabrezu)
I'd say that balances it AND gives the advantage back to the glabrezu.

Atk: +23 (sarrukh) vs. +20 (glabrezu)
BUT:
Dmg: 1d8+12 x3 (max) +1d6+3 vs. 2d8+10 x2 +1d6+5 x2 +1d8+5

SA: poison DC 22 (sarrukh) vs. improved grab (glabrezu)
The sarrukh's poison is weaker than that of the bebilith (CR 10), whereas the glabrezu's improved grab is likely to lead to a serious CR 13-worthy damage beatdown.

SQ: The demon has DR, the sarrukh none. The demon also has better SR and immunities, and some neat abilities (telepathy, resistances).

Feats/Skills: About even.

Special abilities: The demon has true seeing and greater teleport at will, plus monstrous SLAs like chaos hammer, unholy blight, and reverse gravity. The sarrukh has some low-level, 1-3/day SLAs with DCs substantially inferior to the demon's. Massive advantage: glabrezu.

In short, KaeYoss, you may be right that CR 11 is too low, but then it's CR 12, really.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

KaeYoss: I think that you could make as good an argument for CR 12 as CR 11, but that CR 13+ would be a reach.

Haven't argued for more than 12. It just seemed that they should be a bit better than 11 (partly based on the Savage Species formula, where their effective HD alone would get them to 11 AFAIK, and they do have some special abilities beyond that).