Seelie & Unseelie Courts?

[Kobold Avenger]

I'm wondering if anyone out there has better ideas of what the Seelie and Unseelie courts should be about beyond what they've been about in many D&D sources?

There's are many differences between the two courts, but I haven't really decided exactly what the philosophy, idealogy or concept that divides the two courts are. I don't want it to be Seelie=Good or Unseelie=Evil, nor do I want it to be Seelie=Law or Unseelie=Chaos. In fact I want the whole thing about the Seelie and Unseelie to be about something other than alignment.

Change and Tradition could be a difference even though it seems close to Chaos vs. Law. Darkness and Light isn't exactly Good vs. Evil, but is sort of hard to define idealogically.

This is all important for my campaign as I've decided that Elves and a few other races should be more linked to faeries. They're fully integrated into the Faerie courts, with most belonging to either the Seelie or Unseelie Courts. Among the Elven subraces Grey Elves are generally all Seelie, while Drow Elves are generally all Unseelie, with every other Elven subrace being completely split between the two courts. Other races like Halflings (most Seelie) and Goblins (mostly Unseelie with exceptions) had links to the faerie courts in the past but put that all behind them.

 

[woodelf]

I'm wondering if anyone out there has better ideas of what the Seelie and Unseelie courts should be about beyond what they've been about in many D&D sources?

There's are many differences between the two courts, but I haven't really decided exactly what the philosophy, idealogy or concept that divides the two courts are. I don't want it to be Seelie=Good or Unseelie=Evil, nor do I want it to be Seelie=Law or Unseelie=Chaos. In fact I want the whole thing about the Seelie and Unseelie to be about something other than alignment.

Change and Tradition could be a difference even though it seems close to Chaos vs. Law. Darkness and Light isn't exactly Good vs. Evil, but is sort of hard to define idealogically.

This is all important for my campaign as I've decided that Elves and a few other races should be more linked to faeries. They're fully integrated into the Faerie courts, with most belonging to either the Seelie or Unseelie Courts. Among the Elven subraces Grey Elves are generally all Seelie, while Drow Elves are generally all Unseelie, with every other Elven subrace being completely split between the two courts. Other races like Halflings (most Seelie) and Goblins (mostly Unseelie with exceptions) had links to the faerie courts in the past but put that all behind them.

I'd heartily recommend finding a copy of Faeries, for Ars Magica. Either edition (original, for 3rd ed, by WWGS, or revised, for 4th ed, by WotC/Atlas) would be fine for what you want--the biggest change between the two editions, other than layout, is in the regio rules, which you probably won't be using. Even if you decide to use them, most people seem to prefer the version in the revised edition, but i definitely prefer those in the original, so it's not clear that one is better than the other. Anyway, best job addressing seelie/unseelie, and how it's distinct from both good/evil and lawful/chaotic--or divine/infernal, for that matter--that i've seen in a game product. If that's the feel you want for your game, i'd grab it.

 

[Tav_Behemoth]

Ditto Ars Magica's excellent handling of faeries! Another good source of concepts about all things fey is Lord Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter. The ashmalkins (miniscule stirge-riding Unseelie fey) I designed for Masters and Minions were heavily influenced by Dunsany.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

IIRC, I've got a 2nd edition Ravenloft module called The Shadow Rift. I think that may have had some Seelie/Unseelie court material in it. But not completely sure.

Don't know if it's had an online reprint or similar?

 

[lord_banus]

I am currently working on something that involves the seelie and unseelie courts. The idealogical viewpoint that I have taken is that the unseelie take the rights of the individual above anyone else. If you want to do it then you can.. Whereas the seelie believe in the rights of the community. Everything done should benefit society.

 

[Yair]

I also recommend Faeries; it can be found in RPGNow.com .
An article about faerieland you might find interesting, and give you a taste of Ars Magica's faeries, is here. Not quite seelie/unseelie, but it can still be inspiring.

 

[pensiv]

Seelie "Blessed" = Summer
Unseelie "Unholy" = Winter
Celtic year division was only twofold, including Spring with Summer and Fall with Winter, hence Midsummer and Midwinter being what we consider the first days of each.

The division of the faerie court is an agrarian seasonal phenomenon. The Seelie Court was known for bestowing food gifts at twilight, while the Unseelie Court was known for instilling fear and performing mischeif at nighttime. Faeries of the courts are not encountered during the day.

 

[Dogbrain]

Seelie "Blessed" = Summer
Unseelie "Unholy" = Winter
Celtic year division was only twofold, including Spring with Summer and Fall with Winter, hence Midsummer and Midwinter being what we consider the first days of each.

"Seelie" and "Unseelie" have nothing to do with anything "Celtic", as any study of English and "Celtic" languages and culture would very quickly reveal. The terms "seelie" and "unseelie" are purely English, not a bit of Celticousity about them, and they were used in reference to people and events of Old English, medieval English, and even early modern English culture. "Seelie" comes from the same root that begat "silly". Hence, Seelie/Unseelie is more a Germanic belief, similar to Alfar/Svartalfar. Likewise, the "Midsummer/Midwinter" thing is more Germanic than it is "Celtic". The pre-Christian Celtic culture (as far as we can determine) recognized four major holidays, not only two.

All cold/all hot is more a Germanic thing:

Niflheim/Muspellhir, for example.

Unfortunately, popular "culture" is of the delusion that any and all things "fae" are and must automatically be "Celtic". This is the same delusion and ignorance that leads to fandom chicks running around with copies of Scandanavian jewelry that they claim is "Celtic knotwork".

 

[Snapdragyn]

While I have no idea how well the representation matchs classical fantasy & folktale, I find Laurell K. Hamilton's presentations of the Fey Courts very appealing. The first book of the series is "A Kiss of Shadows"; it contains a fair bit of mature material, so Eric's grandmother might not wish to read it.

In the series, the Seelie court is based on physical beauty & 'purity'. Any taint in form or bloodline means banishment to the Unseelie court. The Unseelie are not by any means all 'ugly', however; many are former Seelie nobles who were exiled for various reasons. Since the Unseelie accept everyone & aren't all caught up in some oppressive culture of 'purity', it's easy to see them as better from a liberal philosophical position. They are, however, often given to open & extreme violence & cruelty -- things that would be more constrained by custom in the Seelie court (though still present to some degree). You thus get a division of the beautiful friendly Seelie (who are rather extreme 'rascists' & can destroy you through diplomacy or just a friendly formal duel) & the varied-in-appearance often cruel Unseelie (who are quite liberal & accepting of differences, but harbor psychopaths at all strata).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

The Shadow Rift from the Ravenloft product line has a lot of info on the court. In fact, it's basically a sourcebook on the subject (with a Ravenloft twist, of course).