Scythe Mastery [is this feat balanced]

[Camarath]

Scythe Mastery
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus (Scythe), Expertise
Benefit: Wile using the Scythe each round it can be used either as a 2d4 x4 weapon or as a 2d4 18-20/x2 weapon

Is this feat balanced and should I change prerequisite expertise to something else? If so what? I had thought about weapon finesse but the Scythe is not finessable.

 

[Witness]

I think you should be asking not whether or not it is balanced, but what is the point? This feat doesn't take into consideration things such as the Improved Critical feat or the Keen weapon special ability. Is switching a standard acction, or a free action?Also, what is so special about the Scythe that one should be able to choose whether it crits on 20X4 or 18-20X2?

Being able to pick and choose the qualities of a weapon makes proficiencies obsolete, and being able to pick and choose the qualities of a weapon that is already quite strong is unbalanced.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Looks OK.

Scythes and Falchions aren't that great anyway, and spending a feat to get a combined Scythe/Falchion wouldn't be too powerful.
I'd remove the Expertise requirement.

A Greatsword would be better in most situations anyway.

Geoff.

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

It's perfectly balanced. The average damage remains the same regardless of keen and elemental burst enchantments. Ths only potential effect is on thundering weapons, and vorporal.

 

[Technik4]

It would be interesting (and powerful) if it were:

Crit: 18-19/x2; 20/x4

I would say that keen effects and such only affect the first critical range, you only get the x4 on a 20.

Technik

 

[Redevil621]

Sorry i agree with witness, what would be the point

Seems like there are a lot of things that ur not accounting for, and at X4, a keen weapon or improved crit would just make the weapon overpowerd, but hey that seems to be the style now adays with most people on these bords.

Why add the versitility too, the point of a Scythe is not that its a great weapon that shifts to fit the need of the cituation, otherwise they would have made it like that, a scythe is much harder to use than say a sword. I would use a scythe simply for bad ass factor and that its slashing and pearcing, and that will probably meen a lot more in 3.5, but its still a fat looking weapon.

 

[Camarath]

My intention is that you could chose as a free action at the beginning of your round to use the scythe with it normal stats or basicly as a falchion for the duration of the round. I thought it would be a way to make the scythe a more versatile and there for a more useful weapon for one of my players. Who wanted a bit more out of his weapon and was thinking about taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Scythe) for a 2d6 20/x4 weapon. But, i thought it might be more interesting to offer him versatility in stead of banal increased damage.

Sorry i agree with witness, what would be the point

Seems like there are a lot of things that ur not accounting for, and at X4, a keen weapon or improved crit would just make the weapon overpowerd, but hey that seems to be the style now adays with most people on these bords.

Redevil621 I am not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that by taking Improved Crit. and Keen weapon you could make a base Scythe 18-20/x4 and that would be over powered? Or that it is over powered that a base falchion would have a crit range of 12-20/x2 with Improved Crit. and Keen? Or that changing between them with out having to draw a new weapon is over powered? The ablity to change between the two weapons stats each round with out changing the actual weapon is the only thing I meant to do with the feat.

 

[Witness]

Redevil621 I am not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean that by taking Improved Crit. and Keen weapon you could make a base Scythe 18-20/x4 and that would be over powered?

What he means by this is that, as written, your feat does not take into acount the fact thatt their are ways to expand the crit range on the scythe. What are the choices for crit range when a Figther is wielding a Keen scythe with Improved Critical and your Sythe Mastery feat? Also this may unbalance the feat. I'm sure someone can do a statistical analysis of the average damage for a Scythe with Keen weapon ehancement, Improved Crit and Scythe Mastery.

I thought it would be a way to make the scythe a more versatile and there for a more useful weapon for one of my players. Who wanted a bit more out of his weapon and was thinking about taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Heavy Scythe) for a 2d6 20/x4 weapon. But, i thought it might be more interesting to offer him versatility in stead of banal increased damage.

And by doing so you make the scythe overpowered. Their are instances where it is easier to confirm a Crit on an 18 rather than a 20. A smart player knows this and may change tactics based on that fact, switching to a weapon with a greater threat range but a lower crit multiplier. A Fighter with this feat need not ever switch weapons and can specialize with one melee weapon and saves tons of money by never needing to buy additional melee weapons. Your comments seem to suggest that you or your player think that the Scythe is weak and in need of a powerboost. You are wrong. The minimum damage one can do with a scythe is 2 points, twice the minimum damage for a D8 weapon. Also, the huge crit multiplier more than makes up for the narrow threat range. If your character wants a weapon that grants him specialization with a specific weapon, have him look at PrCs like the Weapon Master in Sword and Fist, or the two of you can make up a PrC focusing on proficiency with the Scythe.

I really don't mean to be harsh or anything. Allowing the PC to take this feat won't have any massive game-shattering effects. You did ask if we though it was balanced however and my analysis says that it is.

 

[Technik4]

Most Situations

In most situations the greatsword or the greataxe is both more common and more useful, as they both do more damage on a typical hit or against creatures immune to crits.

So we aren't talking about making a feat to improve one of the best weapons. We are talking about improving the scythe, a rarely picked weapon, which is statistically about equal with other weapons.

As to "why", well the scythe is an exceedingly big weapon and using its leverage in different ways or adjusting your stance may allow you to achieve different affects. Designing flavor for a game mechanic is rarely difficult.

I think the intention is that a +1 Keen Scythe wielded by someone with the Improve Critical - Scythe and Scythe Mastery feats would have the option of the following every round:

18-20/x4
12-20/x2

While this is a nice option, it only applies to one weapon, and is not strictly speaking very powerful. You can account for high-AC opponents by switching to the larger crit, or wade through mooks with the lower crit. Big deal, the character spent a feat and is fairly unique.

Consider the difference between a hypothetical non-exotic Spiked Chain and its exotic counterpart. For one feat, you have the option of retracting reach and bonuses to disarm and trip. For one feat, the scythe master has the option to change his critical range.

My opinion: It won't break the game, and it will probably enhance someone's entertainment, so go with it.

Technik

 

[Camarath]

guys, thank for the imput

Witness- thank you for explaining what Redevil621 meant I realy was unsure what he thought was over powered but I see your point now

Technik4- thanks for your support and your idea for the crit. range being 18-20/x2 but x4 on a 20 would be a pretty good epic feat I think

I think I will let the player take the feat if he wants. He is not a power gamer anyway so I am not worried about abuse.