Saving Throw vs Death Saving Throw

[molepunch]

Hi all, I'm in need of a rules expert. Is a death saving throw techinically a saving throw in terms of triggering from effects/abilities that go off saving throws? Or are they two very separate things?

According to the rules compendium it says that DSTs "work like" STs. That's a tad vague still IMO.

Thanks in advance for any insight or help.

 

[Argyle King]

I believe a Death Saving Throw is still a type of Saving Throw.

 

[DracoSuave]

A Death Saving Throw is a Saving Throw in all ways. Any abilities that alter or allow you to reroll or roll STs allow you to roll DSTs.

However this is not always useful; Most saving throws are used to end effects. Death saving throws, on the other hand, is used to prevent an effect. So rolling a DST off your turn is generally not useful, as success doesn't improve your condition.

There are other saving throws that work this way as well--the saving throw for avoiding being forced into hindering terrain doesn't end an effect, it only prevents one. But if someone's got an effect to make you add bonuses it, they're totally going to work.

 

[molepunch]

Thanks guys!

Actually unless we are wrong a death saving throw on an off-turn can be great because a result (not roll) of 20 means the guy can spend a healing surge. Our cleric player is trying to figure out if he could potentially help the fallen fighter player bounce back to positive HP using an at-will that grants an ally a saving throw. The fighter player took up a feat for a +5 death saving throw. First Aid gives +2 to next saving throw. Essentials war priest sun domain gives another +2 to death saving throws.

 

[cpendlet]

Actually, it can be very useful to grant someone an extra death saving throw (note that it never occurred to me that you could do this before) if the power granting the saving throw gives you a big bonus (+5 for example). Remember that if you roll 20 or higher you get to immediately spend a healing surge so with that +5 bonus the chances of that happening are not too bad.

 

[Argyle King]

Thanks guys!

Actually unless we are wrong a death saving throw on an off-turn can be great because a result (not roll) of 20 means the guy can spend a healing surge. Our cleric player is trying to figure out if he could potentially help the fallen fighter player bounce back to positive HP using an at-will that grants an ally a saving throw. The fighter player took up a feat for a +5 death saving throw. First Aid gives +2 to next saving throw. Essentials war priest sun domain gives another +2 to death saving throws.

Actually, it can be very useful to grant someone an extra death saving throw (note that it never occurred to me that you could do this before) if the power granting the saving throw gives you a big bonus (+5 for example). Remember that if you roll 20 or higher you get to immediately spend a healing surge so with that +5 bonus the chances of that happening are not too bad.

what I was going to say

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I know I had a shadar ki PC who had +3 or 4 to most saves and +9 to death saves... it was awsome when the leader sent an extra death save with +2 or 3 on top of that... when fighting the ghoul king he was down and out, and the leader threw him a save with a bonus and got a "20" with a nat roll of 6... it was funny.

 

[CM]

This thread reminded me of a few death save-related questions that came up in my game:

1. If someone grants you a death saving throw and the result is below 10, we're assuming it counts toward the limit of 3 failures before you die?

2. Failing three death saves before you take a rest results in the PC dying. Do both a short rest and extended rest reset this counter?

 

[kristoaster]

This thread reminded me of a few death save-related questions that came up in my game:

1. If someone grants you a death saving throw and the result is below 10, we're assuming it counts toward the limit of 3 failures before you die?

2. Failing three death saves before you take a rest results in the PC dying. Do both a short rest and extended rest reset this counter?

1. Yes, very much so.

2. Pretty sure it's only extended.

 

[Oldtimer]

This thread reminded me of a few death save-related questions that came up in my game:

1. If someone grants you a death saving throw and the result is below 10, we're assuming it counts toward the limit of 3 failures before you die?

2. Failing three death saves before you take a rest results in the PC dying. Do both a short rest and extended rest reset this counter?

1. I can't quote an exact rule, but in my campaign it would not. It seems stupid if it would.

2. Any rest, short or extended, resets this counter.