[Savage Species]Half-ogre overpowered??

[zdanboy]

Welcome!!!

I just got Savage Species here in Poland (good to have friends in USA ) and I absolutely love it.....

However I have a small issue with the balance of the half-ogre race.......

As a player I wanna play a half-ogre PC and I am wondering is it not too powerfull.....i do not wanna ruin a balanced game.....also my DM is a novice, and not too good with rules so I think I should judge myself.....

So do you think that the half-ogre with it's +6 Strenght, large size, natural armor and reach should stay +1 ECL???

Any suggestions are welcome......

 

[Simulacrum]

So you say the halfogre is ECL1, has he more than 1 hit die?
You must calculate the hit die into the ECL to get it right.
A monster with say 2 hit die and ECL 1 has an effective ECL of 2.
...............
here are a few balancing issues that your DM should take in to account:

- You are a HUGE monster people dont like you
- Being a social outcast and having no chance to *fit in* is a serious problem to any liviing creature. If you play this out as a disadvantage your half ogre is going to be always more beast than human.
- You are a HUGE monster its difficult to get armor and weapons fitting for your strength/size
- Armor and weapons for you cost MUCH more
- You are a ugly, aggressive, dumb, and a general threat so people will hedge you out.
- If something goes wrong somewhere, you know who is the first to blame, yeah right the misfits.

There are probably more balance issues but these are fine for starters.

 

[Leopold]

The stats +/- work out evenly. Sure you gain more for str but you lose out on dex, int, cha just as much..

 

[mmu1]

Doesn't sound like it is, to be honest - not for the kind of classes you'd actually bother playing a Half-Ogre as...

However, I think the key phrase here is "my DM is a novice"... Be nice to the new guy, and don't drop something like this on him just yet. Even if it is balanced, it'd be a difficult class to DM for because it's monstrous.

Wiec sie za bardzo nad nim nie znecaj.

 

[hammymchamham]

my concern with the half-ogre is.... how does he get into the duengon?

 

[Numion]

So you say the halfogre is ECL1, has he more than 1 hit die?
You must calculate the hit die into the ECL to get it right.
A monster with say 2 hit die and ECL 1 has an effective ECL of 2.
...............
here are a few balancing issues that your DM should take in to account:

- You are a HUGE monster people dont like you
- Being a social outcast and having no chance to *fit in* is a serious problem to any liviing creature. If you play this out as a disadvantage your half ogre is going to be always more beast than human.
- You are a HUGE monster its difficult to get armor and weapons fitting for your strength/size
- Armor and weapons for you cost MUCH more
- You are a ugly, aggressive, dumb, and a general threat so people will hedge you out.
- If something goes wrong somewhere, you know who is the first to blame, yeah right the misfits.

There are probably more balance issues but these are fine for starters.

You're assuming quite a lot about the game world with that statement. Maybe half-ogres aren't outcasts in some world.

In general, mechanical advantages shouldn't be compensated with RP disadvatages.

 

[Sejs]

Advantages:
+6 str = +3 to hit / damage with melee weapons, +3 str-related skills (eg. swim, jump)
+2 con = +1 hp/level, +1 con-related skills (eg. concentration)
+4 natural armor
Large Size = bigger weapons, 10' reach
60' darkvision

Disadvantages:
-2 dex = -1 ac, -1 to hit with missle weapons, -1 dex-related skills (eg. move silently, ride)
-2 int = -1 skill point per level, -1 int-related skills (eg. knowledge, search), penalties to int-based spellcasters
-2 cha = -1 to turning checks, -1 to cha-related skills (eg. diplomacy, handle animal), -1 to npc reaction checks, penalties to cha-based spellcasters
Large Size = -1 ac, -1 to hit with all attacks, -4 hide checks, more expensive / less available weapons, armor, clothing, lodging, food, mounts.



Like I said in a previous thread: compared to the other +1 ECL races, they have:
*no skill bonuses (in fact, as you can see have a penalty to pretty much most skills)
*arn't native outsiders (and therefor arn't immune to say, charm person)
*no inherrent spells (no darkness, shatter, etc)
*no elemental resistances (which, combined with some of the Sav.Spec feats are pretty darn neat)


Personally I'd cut down the natural armor, because a full blooded ogre nat. armor is +5, so you'd think a half-ogre would have a +2 or +3. Other than that I gots no problems with HOgres being +1ECL.

 

[Agamon]

I helped a player make a half-ogre PC for my campaign last year. He was ECL +2 and had:

+6 STR
+4 CON
-2 DEX
-4 INT
-4 CHR
60' darkvision
2 HD

He had no nat. armor, no large size.

That said, he was waay over-powered in combat compared to the others in the party. He was a Bar2/Clr2 in a party of 6 to 8 level PCs.

So, yeah, I'd say the Sav. Species half-ogre is a bit overpowered.

 

[Hardhead]

Oh God, yeah. I'd never ever allow a +6 to a stat to be +1 ECL. Especially to strenght. Githzeari get +6 dex, +2 Int -2 Wis, and they're ECL +1 (plus, their Outsiders, so they can't be raised). No nat armor (they do get a armor bonus, but not a nat armor, so it stacks with uh, a whole lot less). No large size.

Gah.

Half-Ogres should be ECL +2.


- Z a c h

 

[Forrester]

Personally I'd cut down the natural armor, because a full blooded ogre nat. armor is +5, so you'd think a half-ogre would have a +2 or +3. Other than that I gots no problems with HOgres being +1ECL.

I think with +2 natural armor they'd still be too strong, but it'd be closer. I mean, if you're going to play a monster class, you can technically play an orc, get +4 to Str, no Dex hit (but no Con boost) and have no ECL bonus.

So if you'd allow orcs, the question is whether

+2 Str
+2 Con
-2 Dex
+2 Natural Armor
10' reach

is worth giving up one character level. I think the obvious answer is that it is, in spades. And orcs are an absolutely strong choice for an ECL +0 race if you're a fighter.

Which makes me think that the above with +5 natural armor would be worth two character levels.

I mean, look at bugbears -- after accounting for normal hit-dice, they're +1 level, just like half-ogres. They get

+4 Str
+2 Con
+2 Dex
+3 Natural Armor
+4 move silently
BUT no 10' reach, and you're giving up 3 levels of class advancement.

Hmm. That's pretty damn good, actually . . .

Not sure I've said anything useful here. But that's never stopped me from posting before!