Sage Advice Needed - Reverse Gravity Spell

[DMLady]

We got into a bit of debate during our game last weekend when the wizard cast a Reverse Gravity spell. My question is this....is this a one time event for the enemies in the area of effect, or does this create an "anti-gravity" area that lasts for the spells duration? The rules in the PHB are vague. As a DM I ruled that it was a one time event and that the victims hover for the spell duration (or until dismissed). They argued it was ongoing for all those who entered the area of effect. The reason I stated it was not ongoing was because the spell explanation never expounds on what happens if creatures enter or leave the zone. Any advice folks?

Thanks,
DMLady

 

[StormbringerAUS]

I would have thought since it is a cylinder from the ground upwards it would effect anyone entering the area. But that is just my reading of it

There was previous thread about it

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...how-the-quot-Reverse-Gravity-quot-spell-works

Not sure it will be of help but might be more than I would be.

 

[Unwise]

The other awkward thing is, what happens to the people that make their saves. Do they just shrug off the magic and are unaffected by it, their gravity is not reversed? Or are they just successfully flailing around, climbing on the floor/roof? The decision has significant impacts on how combat plays out.

 

[Harzel]

Since I think of gravity as an environmental effect, it never occurred to me to look at the spell as the OP did. But given the way that the spell is described, the OP's reading seems plausible - as long as you don't get the same connotation from the word "gravity" that I do. I would still play it as a cylinder in which gravity is reversed for the duration of the spell because "gravity" is not something that operates on an object-by-object basis. In other words, if I wanted to describe a per-object / per-creature enchantment, I would not use the word "gravity".

In either case, I think creatures that make the save are still subject to the effect of the spell, since the spell description says that they "avoid the fall", not that the spell has no effect on them.

 

[jaelis]

The reversal effect pretty clearly lasts for the duration. So I don't see why new creatures entering the area wouldn't be subject to the same effect. The spell says it change gravity in the cylinder, not that it just affects objects and creatures within that cylinder.

The other awkward thing is, what happens to the people that make their saves. Do they just shrug off the magic and are unaffected by it, their gravity is not reversed? Or are they just successfully flailing around, climbing on the floor/roof? The decision has significant impacts on how combat plays out.

"A creature can make a Dexterity saving throw to grab onto a fixed object it can reach, thus avoiding the fall." So if there isn't anything to hold onto in reach, then it doesn't do any good to save.

 

[Blue]

I see this as modifying the environment, just like a spell that temporarily made difficult terrain would. And like that difficult terrain, it affects those who come into the area later without needing to detail the effects of the changed terrain. This isn't a spell that targets any creatures. Even the save is NOT a save vs. being affected by the spell - the environment is changed and you have no option not to have your gravity reversed in the cylinder - the save is to grab onto something so you don't fall up.

 

[Imaculata]

Whenever the spell description is unclear, I always look to the description in earlier editions to guess at what is intended. In third edition it states:

"This spell reverses gravity in an area, causing all unattached objects and creatures within that area to fall upward and reach the top of the area in 1 round. If some solid object (such as a ceiling) is encountered in this fall, falling objects and creatures strike it in the same manner as they would during a normal downward fall. If an object or creature reaches the top of the area without striking anything, it remains there, oscillating slightly, until the spell ends. At the end of the spell duration, affected objects and creatures fall downward.

Provided it has something to hold onto, a creature caught in the area can attempt a Reflex save to secure itself when the spell strikes. Creatures who can fly or levitate can keep themselves from falling"

So I would rule it is an ongoing effect in an area, until the spell ends.

 

[DMLady]

It would really help if some extra verbiage had been added that stated, "All creatures who enter or start their turn in the affected area....". Needless to day, this took up some 30 minutes of debate (and maybe a little arguing) of our game time. Seeing that this is a spell from older editions, more thought should have been put into the spell logistics. But I thank everyone for the inputs. I may start treating this as a "zone" and add some house rules.

 

[jaelis]

Whenever the spell description is unclear, I always look to the description in earlier editions to guess at what is intended. In third edition it states:

Interesting, I'd have said the 5e version was no more difficult.

This spell reverses gravity in a 50-foot-radius, 100-foot high cylinder centered on a point within range. All creatures and objects that aren’t somehow anchored to the ground in the area fall upward and reach the top of the area when you cast this spell. A creature can make a Dexterity saving throw to grab onto a fixed object it can reach, thus avoiding the fall.

If some solid object (such as a ceiling) is encountered in this fall, falling objects and creatures strike it just as they would during a normal downward fall. If an object or creature reaches the top of the area without striking anything, it remains there, oscillating slightly, for the duration.

At the end of the duration, affected objects and creatures fall back down.

But if the 3e wording seems clearer, that's good. I certainly agree they are trying to say the same thing.

One difference is the specification about flying creatures, but I'm actually kind of happy to move that to the DM ruling category. It doesn't make that much sense to me that a flier could instantly compensate for gravity reversing. Personally I'd probably give the same Dex save option.

 

[jgsugden]

The description seems to clearly create an environmental effect to me. It reverses gravity in the area.

I also think it is such a fun idea that I make sure to really play it out and make it a fun spell. This is a role playing game in which characters take a role in a story. Creative uses of this spell are an excellent way to tell a great story.

I've allowed (and used) a lot of creativity for this spell for several editions, under several versions of the spell. It has never been a mistake to think about the physics described and play them up. It is rarely selected by PCs as a spell, but it is a favorite of mine for signature bad guys. This means that I overlook the "slightly" after the word oscillating, generally, and go crazy.

As a DM, I also have impacted creatures/objects "launch" from the reverse gravity into the normal gravity. That means they go much higher than 100 feet in the air if there is no obstruction. They fall up for about one round (effectively falling 100 feet twice which takes about 5 seconds), then down for one round (again, 5 more seconds) and end up a bit above the floor, then up for another round to a lower max height, then down for a round, etc... I have the height decrease by 10 feet for every interval, in general, but things offering more air resistance will be decreasing their height swing by more each interval. As it only lasts a minute, at most, I have them take a full minute to settle in at 100 feet. I usually wing it, but the pattern for humanoids is usually something like:

Rd 1: Launch to 195 feet
Rd 2: Drop to 10 feet
Rd 3: Launch to 185 feet
Rd 4: Drop to 20 feet
Rd 5: Launch to 170 feet
Rd 6: Drop to 40 feet
Rd 7: I stop being so precise and say they're oscillating between 50 and 150 feet.
Rd 8: ... between 60 and 140 feet.
Rd 9: ... between 80 and 120 feet.
Rd 10: I have them settle in at roughly 100 feet.

I let people push off floating objects to try to get out of the gravity area, etc... I allow people to interact with the objects and flyers to try to push them (or themselves) out of the area of effect, as well, causing them to drop early. If they ask, I also let them try to guide the movement through the air in the same way a sky diver would, but it is minimal as they do not have the same maximum force in play....

Yes, I do allow a spellcaster to cease concentration at the top of that first oscillation. This translated into the enemy launching into the air for a round, then crashing down to take 19d6 damage at the end of a second round. That is less than disintegrate (a lower level single target spell)... and is avoidable by a wide swath of creatures (flyers, teleporters, etc...)

Best use of the spell from my history was from a clever PC: They started an avalanche to take out an enemy encampment. The villain wizard put up a wall of force to block it. The PC used reverse gravity to launch the boulders (which had forward momentum towards the encampment from the angle of the avalanche) into the air, over the wall, and down onto the camp. I made him make some "spellcrafting" roles to see how well he was able to target the flying avalanche, but it was an iconic moment for that campaign when he nailed those roles and just crushed everything.

I also had a PC use it as a way to allow an army to scale a tall cliff very quickly. They charged at the cliff, running into the area, and then flew up and out of the area of effect - and the speed and angle of entry allowed them to drop fairly gently onto the top of the cliff at the "height" of their reverse fall (again - spellcrafting roles showed how well they did on setting this up). It was chaotic, didn't go exactly as planned, etc... but it was so creative I had to applaud (and reward) the idea.