Running a barony - what to use?

[Emiricol]

I am considering starting a campaign in which the PCs are rulers of a small barony on the frontiers of the realm. My question is what would people in general most prefer?

MMS:WE provides both rules for creating (but not running!) a small, manor-sized territory (typically 1 square mile or less) in great detail. Fairly complex to create.

MMS:WE also provides rules for creating (but not running!) any other sized territory, including a 20-30 square mile Barony, with taxes to the noble over you and from the nobles under you. The lesser nobles mostly run the manors and lands in the Barony. Fairly complex to create.

Empire from AEG provides a very simplistic system that easily creates a larger area, but doesn't detail it well. It would be a backdrop crutch, basically, and give me some structure on things. Fairly simple to create.

 

[KenM]

I'm not familliar with those sourcebooks, so I won't vote. But I think asking the players what they want in this type of game would be good.

 

[Emiricol]

I'm not familliar with those sourcebooks, so I won't vote. But I think asking the players what they want in this type of game would be good.

Oh, I will. But I want to have a good idea how to proceed before the game begins, since I expect high player turnover at first. I'll be recruiting a whole new group of players rather than use the players from my existing campaign, so it will take a while for the group to stabilize. So that opinion could easily change as the group does.

Plus I don't really want the focus of the campaign to be counting how many chickens are taxed, but rather the experience of running and being responsible for a fiefdom

Meaning that the system itself won't be as important as it might in say, a Birthright campaign where the system really is basically the game.

 

[maddman75]

Here's a simple system I used to great effect when I did this. It requires a bit of Fiat, but is a good shorthand to let yourself know how things are going.

There are three 'stats' for the kingdom that describe its general state of being. The number ranges 1-20, high good low bad. this is the d20 system, might as well go with that. The stats are security, economy, and popularity. They can go up or down depending on campaign events, PC/ruler choices, and various negotiations and deals with factions and different merchants. 10 is an average rating for a medieval city-state or small kingdom. And they can influence each other as well.

Security is how safe your citizens feel. At a ten, they are reasonably safe, though there are dangerous areas in the slums and various monsters in the wilds. A low security rating means crime is rampant or there is an invading army in your kingdom. This will penalize both your economy and popularity as people cannot trade safely and let's be honest, you aren't really protecting your serfs. A high security means people are very safe and most wilderness areas have been cleaned out. This boosts your economy but decreases your security. Mercahnts will flow in knowing their caravans will be safe, but safety can breed contempt and ambitious nobles or merchants may try to make a move on the throne.

Popularity is simply how much the people like you. With a low popularity they are cursing your name and may give shelter to spies or traitors. With a high popularity they are singing your praises and erecting statues to you. A low popularity hits your security because of the possibilty of insurgents and your economy because no one wants to trade with a region that is having such problems. A high popularity decreases your trade, because the people have such faith in your they tend not to work quite so hard. On the other hand it boosts your security because the people are intolerant of spies and traitors.

Economy is a measure of the general trade and productivity. A high economy means yours is a rich state, while a poor rating means you are a backwater. A good economy boosts popularity, since the people know they always have a meal coming. On the other hand it can decrease security because of the number of foreigners that are coming into your kingdom - it's easy for a spy to move amoung them.

I know my reasoning may be a bit of a strech on some of these, but I like the rock-paper-scissors aspect of it. I don't want to to mean 'all I have to do is get everything high and we achieve Utopia'. Ruling is all about compromise and finding a balance. In general, when a rating hits 18, 19, or 20, apply a hit or bonus to the other two. When a rating hits 4, 3, or 2 apply a hit to the other two. If any of the three reach one, the other two do as well. When this happens, the people revolt.

In keeping with the spirit of making hard choices, the DM should try to apply both a bonus and a penalty to PC chocies. For instance, say there is a tribe of orcs that continually raids the caravans. The PCs have no time to deal with this themselves, they are busy rulers! They decide to offer a 1gp bounty for every orc ear brought in by adventurers. This will certainly work, giving a +2 to security. However this drains the nations' coffers, reducing the economy by -2.

Also, don't simply tell the PCs what their ratings are! They should have to judge by themselves, or more likely have NPC advisors that can, perhaps with a Profession (advisor) roll get a judgement on how things are doing. Even then, tell them that 'the people really like you', not 'your popularity is 14'. Similarly, don't tell them exactly how much the orc bounty will impact the economy, only that it will. Then they have to decide if the increased security is worth it.

It was pretty successful when I did it .

Edit - wrote this before you edited. Personally, I'd go with MMS:WS to create the areas and my little system to run it.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Fields of Blood, by Eden Studios, is headed to distributors right now. It supposedly has a domain running system...

Also, wasn't there a "skills & powers" nation-defining (as opposed to building) system back in an old Dragon magazine? (Hopefully in the first 250, since I only have the CD Archive...)

 

[Wombat]

I go with MMS: WE.

Of course I'm prejudiced in favour of volumes that feel medieval

Overall I find the system in it very good for running a small fief fairly easily and realistically. All a matter of tastes and needs, however.

 

[Silveras]

It is tough to answer this question, because you said the style is still undecided. The style will very much drive which book will be most useful, I think.

MMS:WE is great for role-play intensive use. The level of detail helps to bring it all to life, and the LACK of mechanics for interactions with other realms leaves a lot of room for role-playing opportunities. If, as you said, you plan to leave the mechanics in the background, this could be the right system to use.

By the way, I did not find it at all time consuming to create a small realm using MMS:WE. That may be thanks to the automated Excel sheets I use to do some calculations for me. I agree that creating each manor can be complex, but the "higher level" presumes a bunch of averages. If you decide to alter the averages, it becomes more complex, but using "stock" values, there are only about a dozen or so parameters to decide on -- everything else handles itself.

On the other hand, if you plan to make interactions -- trade, diplomacy, etc. -- among the realms a key factor of the campaign, then Empire may be a much more appropriate choice. The descriptions are abstract, but that helps keep the game from bogging down. One caveat: don't start at the Barony level and plan to scale up. I have noticed a problem with the scale rules: the land does not scale at the same rate as the other factors. A realm that works (ie., produces enough food and has enough living space) at one scale may not work if you convert to "real" numbers and then scale up.

Also, on the Community Support page for Expeditious Retreat Press, you can find a PDF on creating Regions (Provinces) with MMS:WE.

You may find these threads helpful:
Comparison: Strongholds & Dynasties - Empire - Magical Medieval Society - Birthright
AEG Empire - How is it ?
Birthright comparison with Empire
Mongoose's Strongholds & Dynasties

 

[Arnwyn]

Given your poll choices, I would say MMS:WE.

However, depending on how long term you plan this campaign, MMS:WE may not be your best choice.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I am considering starting a campaign in which the PCs are rulers of a small barony on the frontiers of the realm. My question is what would people in general most prefer?

MMS:WE provides both rules for creating (but not running!) a small, manor-sized territory (typically 1 square mile or less) in great detail. Fairly complex to create.

MMS:WE also provides rules forany other sized territory, including a 20-30 square mile Barony,

I vote for the smaller territory. One, too big a territory means too much responsibility to go traipsing around. Second, to me a count runs a county with several barons, while a baron runs a barony with maybe a couple of knights and peers. Most barons shouldn't have more than two or three manors under their control and those should be Viscounts (the gold-star baron).

A trusted baron will often be used to handle the affairs of a count so your PCs can be directly involved. Matter of fact, you could have your PCs be the majority of barons in a county. Barons are the perfect title for PCs; important enough to be taken seriously, plentiful enough that a few can disappear without jeapordizing regional politics.

 

[Emiricol]

All good points. Are you familiar enough with either system to have a strong opinion on which would work better?

And thanks to you folks for replying. This is a tough and long-lasting decision!

-Emiricol