Ring of Invisibility Question

[Greenfield]

I've seen and read a number of different ways the Ring of Invisibility is handled.

The description in my SRD says, "Invisibility: By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
Faint illusion; CL 3rd; Forge Ring, invisibility; Price 20,000 gp."

Some here on the board read that as "The ring lets you cast the spell on yourself", meaning that the Invisibility effect runs out after three minutes, as appropriate to a 3rd level caster using that spell.

I always read that as saying the user is Invisible while the ring is activated, with the Invisibility following the same general rules as the spell, in terms of what it does and doesn't conceal, and the fact that it is dispelled if the user makes an attack.

To me, the difference is in the wording. It doesn't say "Gains use of the Invisibility spell", it says "gains the benefits of Invisibility, as the spell."

What's your take, and why? (Also, if your SRD or book varies in the wording, please include that reference.)

 

[Dandu]

Under what circumstances would it matter?

 

[Greenfield]

Imagine stumbling across an invisible corpse, someone who died while using such a ring.

Or more commonly, having to renew/reactivate every 30 rounds when activation might not be feasible. (Some might argue that the activation requires a verbal command, since the spell has a verbal component. that could give away a position.)

Not a huge concern either way, just trying to prompt a little thought and discussion.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

You gain the condition, rather than the ability to cast the spell. The condition lasts until it would otherwise break, without regard for caster level or other spell-specific conventions such as verbal or material components.

 

[Greenfield]

I agree, you get the *benefit* of the spell, not the spell. The condition, Invisibility, is found in the spell description, and so the item references it.

Activating the item follows normal "command activated" items, without regard for the spell casting requirements, and it remains active until circumstance deactivates it, or the user does.

Since it's the "benefit", not the spell, spell duration doesn't apply.

It seems obvious, but I've seen arguments to the contrary.

 

[Dandu]

Imagine stumbling across an invisible corpse, someone who died while using such a ring.

Or more commonly, having to renew/reactivate every 30 rounds when activation might not be feasible. (Some might argue that the activation requires a verbal command, since the spell has a verbal component. that could give away a position.)

Not a huge concern either way, just trying to prompt a little thought and discussion.

I've always assumed that it activates and does not need to be reactivated every X minutes, since the purpose of the ring is to enhance stealth, and having to turn it back on regularly would be somewhat counterproductive. There's nothing explicitly forbidding it, or any feasible situations which would make such an interpretation unbalanced.

 

[Tovec]

I've always assumed that it activates and does not need to be reactivated every X minutes, since the purpose of the ring is to enhance stealth, and having to turn it back on regularly would be somewhat counterproductive. There's nothing explicitly forbidding it, or any feasible situations which would make such an interpretation unbalanced.

I haven't seen many arguments about rings of invisibility but as far as I recall, hats of disguise are worded similarly. In the case of the hats, I've seen it ruled that the upkeep of the disguise check is required so that a PC cannot continually use the hat as a secret identity - because eventually the hat turns off and has to be re-applied. It is usually hard to identify when the hat is active in the first place, a character wearing a hat is the only real description we would have that they are using it. In a fantasy world that would be approximately 90% of characters and so it seems silly that they only way around the hat is to give it a duration.

The same goes for the ring, that it works as invisibility (the spell) in that it has a duration. You can reapply that duration indefinitely but the duration is important so that it is not constantly on - frequently is okay, on when it needs to be is equally fine, constant seems like overkill.

 

[Dandu]

It is usually hard to identify when the hat is active in the first place, a character wearing a hat is the only real description we would have that they are using it.

Off the top of my head:
Detect Magic
Spot check (You can see through a magical disguise.)
Listen check (Sound of equipment is not affected by the glamer.)
Will save due to interaction (Unless the character refrains from physical contact by all means possible -- no paying for things personally , hand shakes, exchanging cards, sexual intercourse, etc.)

Incidentally, an always-active Hat of Disguise is how I run it.

 

[Tovec]

Off the top of my head:
Detect Magic

MIGHT tell you they have a magical effect emanating from their head. Doesn't tell you what the effect is, specifically. Doesn't bypass it in any real sense, just alerts you they have magic - and if you can afford the hat chances are you have magic anyhow so it doesn't give a real advantage.

Spot check (You can see through a magical disguise.)

Yes, to beat the disguise check. This is the only real way, however if the person is actually good at their skill (trained i disguise) and using the hat - then at most what the spotter would notice is them wearing a hat. And since the hat can be changed appearance that isn't much to go on for an accusation.

Listen check (Sound of equipment is not affected by the glamer.)

Listening for what? I presume for something like armor or other heavy or loud gear? Unless we are talking about a move silently check, I don't see this as particularly valid way to detect anything. Besides, does no good if the person only altered their face/race and kept their equipment the same.

Will save due to interaction (Unless the character refrains from physical contact by all means possible -- no paying for things personally , hand shakes, exchanging cards, sexual intercourse, etc.)

I'm not an adventurer in DnD, but generally speaking I refrain from most forms of personal contact whenever possible. I rarely touch people or let them touch me. It isn't a standoffish thing, I just don't like people touching me. How would they then interact with an illusion that makes me appear as someone else?
Beyond that, if all the hat is doing is chaining one's race or face, then there is next to no reason that they would 'interact' with the illusion unless they are touching that character's face. So coins, cards, and hand-shakes should all be fine. Intercourse is rather different, but I think at that point we've gone a bit far - just remove the hat.

Incidentally, an always-active Hat of Disguise is how I run it.

I run it similarly. I use both the hat and the ring in similar fashion. If you tell me it is on, then it is on. But it has a duration. It is excellent for slipping past guards, getting into somewhere you shouldn't. It isn't a full blown disguise or second identity. It requires more than one disguise check, for instance, and means that if you are in unfriendly company for a significant period of time that there is a decent chance they'll at least be afforded a chance to notice the illusion. I don't think it is unreasonable for spells that usually have a duration to continue to have that duration - when the item can be used repeatedly over and over. Bilbo didn't walk around for 40 years wearing the ring to be invisible - he used it when it was necessary/for fun. Black Widow took off the holo-face thing when she was revealed, it wasn't on forever. That is all I'm saying, at some point I think it should be turned off and having a duration is a good way to do that - it doesn't stop the character from re-activating the effect since it can be used at will.

I don't know if I am violating how the rules work or not, I honestly don't care. It rarely comes up, but it is my best concept of how those items should be run. So when it comes up that is how and why I use it that way. Just like making clerics actually prepare their spells at the time of day they are supposed to - doesn't often come up, but when it does I enforce it.

 

[Dandu]

MIGHT tell you they have a magical effect emanating from their head. Doesn't tell you what the effect is, specifically. Doesn't bypass it in any real sense, just alerts you they have magic - and if you can afford the hat chances are you have magic anyhow so it doesn't give a real advantage.

3rd Round
The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)

There's a good chance that if the wizard casts Detect Magic on you (spellcraft modifier of +7 at 1st level, success on a 9 or higher, assuming no other bonuses are in play), he knows that it's an illusion spell emanating from your head. In other words, that the hat you are wearing is disguising you. (And that's not even mentioning True Seeing, Arcane Sight or Greater Arcane Sight.)

Even if they don't know what the spell is, if someone's suspicious, the fact that you have a spell effect emanating from your head, combined with the fact that Hats of Disguise are known to exist, might cause the suspicious party to ask you to remove your hat/thing on your head.

Listening for what? I presume for something like armor or other heavy or loud gear? Unless we are talking about a move silently check, I don't see this as particularly valid way to detect anything. Besides, does no good if the person only altered their face/race and kept their equipment the same.

Wearing heavy armor generates noise that can be noticed with passive listen checks. But it also works in reverse -- if you have a cloak on your disguise, or a dress, but aren't wearing either, there will be an absence of swishing sounds.

Spot and listen checks are not foolproof ways of seeing through an illusion, but they can.

I'm not an adventurer in DnD, but generally speaking I refrain from most forms of personal contact whenever possible. I rarely touch people or let them touch me. It isn't a standoffish thing, I just don't like people touching me. How would they then interact with an illusion that makes me appear as someone else?

Do you think that refraining from physical contact (handshakes in western cultures are very common) might be perceived as a little strange or suspicious?

Beyond that, if all the hat is doing is chaining one's race or face, then there is next to no reason that they would 'interact' with the illusion unless they are touching that character's face. So coins, cards, and hand-shakes should all be fine. Intercourse is rather different, but I think at that point we've gone a bit far - just remove the hat.

What? If you change your race, you're definitely changing the rest of your body -- or do you want to be some sort of elf with the burly forearms of a lumberjack/calloused fingers of a martial artist/something else rather incongruous? And if you just change your face, that still doesn't prevent someone from studying/inspecting your face to disbelieve the illusion.