D&D 5E Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

[DND_Reborn]

Inspired by the @lowkey13 thread of "sameyness", @TwoSix, myself, and hopefully others are working on revising the spell lists and roles of some of the classes. If you want to see the original thread, it is here:

Maxwell's Silver Hammer: On Spells, Design, and the feeling of Sameyness in 5e

*Deleted by user*

www.enworld.org

To begin with, the "Big 3" casters are Cleric, Druid, and Wizard. Half-casters under each are Paladin, Ranger, and Sorcerer, respectively. Warlocks and Bards will be dealt with separately, but mostly Warlocks will do more with Eldritch Invocations and Bards will have access to all spell lists as a half-caster as well. Each aspect will be dealt with in time.

The first focus is to take all the spells and organize them into the Big 3 lists. I will update this OP as progress is made. Commonly, I will continue to use the notation for myself and TwoSix when we have different views as (myself/TwoSix). Part of my goal, at least, is to have spell lists that are fairly balanced in the number of spells

This is the final "first" draft. It will be returned to and tweaked later.

PLEASE NOTE: This OP now reflects my compiled lists after disucssion with other forum members, most notably @TwoSix, @Tony Vargas, @vincegetorix, and others. Thank you all for your feedback and contributions. If you have compiled lists you would like to add, post them and I will update this OP with a link to your lists.

Spoiler: ALL (Wizard/Bard) Spell List

Wizards and Bards are the "universal" spell casters and can choose spells from any list. Bards will be half-casters, limited to level 5 spells.

I realize the versatility this lends this class is very powerful, but Wizards get little else in terms of class features and Bards being reduced to half-casters balances it out IMO.

Spoiler: ARCANE (Sorcerer/Warlock) Spell List

Total Spells: 158

Cantrips:

1. Blade Ward
2. Light
3. Mage Hand
4. Mending
5. Message
6. Minor Illusion
7. Prestidigitation

1st Level:

1. Alarm
2. Arcane Weapon
3. Arms of Hadar
4. Burning Hands
5. Catapult
6. Chaos Bolt
7. Chromatic Orb
8. Color Spray
9. Comprehend Languages
10. Detect Magic
11. Disguise Self
12. Expeditious Retreat
13. Feather Fall
14. Find Familiar
15. Grease
16. Identify
17. Illusory Script
18. Mage Armor
19. Magic Missile
20. Shield
21. Silent Image
22. Sleep
23. Tasha's Hideous Laughter
24. Tenser's Floating Disk
25. Thunderwave
26. Unseen Servant

2nd Level:

1. Aganazzar's Scorcher
2. Arcane Lock
3. Blur
4. Cloud of Daggers
5. Continual Flame
6. Crown of Madness
7. Darkness
8. Dragon's Breath
9. Enlarge/Reduce
10. Invisibility
11. Knock
12. Levitate
13. Locate Object
14. Magic Mouth
15. Magic Weapon
16. Melf's Acid Arrow
17. Mirror Image
18. Misty Step
19. Nystul's Magic Aura
20. Phantasmal Force
21. Pyrotechnics
22. Rope Trick
23. Scorching Ray
24. See Invisibility
25. Shadow Blade
26. Snilloc's Snowball Swarm
27. Spider Climb
28. Web

3rd Level:

1. Blink
2. Catnap
3. Clairvoyance
4. Counterspell
5. Dispel Magic
6. Enemies Abound
7. Fireball
8. Fly
9. Gaseous Form
10. Haste
11. Hunger of Hadar
12. Hypnotic Pattern
13. Leomund's Tiny Hut
14. Lightning Bolt
15. Major Image
16. Melf's Minute Meteors
17. Nondetection
18. Phantom Steed
19. Sending
20. Slow
21. Stinking Cloud
22. Tiny Servant
23. Vampiric Touch

4th Level:

1. Arcane Eye
2. Conjure Minor Elementals
3. Dimension Door
4. Evard's Black Tentacles
5. Fabricate
6. Fire Shield
7. Greater Invisibility
8. Hallucinatory Terrain
9. Leomund's Secret Chest
10. Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound
11. Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum
12. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
13. Phantasmal Killer
14. Polymorph
15. Shadow of Moil
16. Stoneskin
17. Vitriolic Sphere

5th Level:

1. Animate Objects
2. Bigby's Hand
3. Cloudkill
4. Cone of Cold
5. Contact Other Plane
6. Creation
7. Dream
8. Enervation
9. Far Step
10. Legend Lore
11. Mislead
12. Modify Memory
13. Passwall
14. Planar Binding
15. Rary's Telepathic Bond
16. Seeming
17. Synaptic Static
18. Telekinesis
19. Teleportation Circle
20. Wall of Force

6th Level:

1. Arcane Gate
2. Chain Lightning
3. Contingency
4. Create Homunculus
5. Disintegrate
6. Drawmij's Instant Summons
7. Forbiddance
8. Globe of Invulnerability
9. Guards and Wards
10. Move Earth
11. Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
12. Otto's Irresistible Dance
13. Programmed Illusion
14. Scatter
15. Tenser's Transformation

7th Level:

1. Delayed Blast Fireball
2. Etherealness
3. Forcecage
4. Mirage Arcane
5. Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion
6. Mordenkainen's Sword
7. Prismatic Spray
8. Project Image
9. Sequester
10. Teleport

8th Level:

1. Antimagic Field
2. Clone
3. Demiplane
4. Illusory Dragon
5. Maddening Darkness
6. Maze
7. Mighty Fortress

9th Level:

1. Astral Projection
2. Imprisonment
3. Invulnerability
4. Prismatic Wall
5. Time Stop
6. Wish

Spoiler: DIVINE (Cleric/Paladin) Spell List

Total: 139

Cantrips:

1. Friends
2. Guidance
3. Resistance
4. Spare the Dying
5. Thaumaturgy
6. True Strike

1st Level:

1. Armor of Agathys
2. Bane
3. Bless
4. Cause Fear
5. Ceremony
6. Command
7. Compelled Duel
8. Cure Wounds
9. Detect Evil and Good
10. Dissonant Whispers
11. Divine Favor
12. Guiding Bolt
13. Healing Word
14. Hellish Rebuke
15. Heroism
16. Hex
17. Protection from Evil and Good
18. Purify Food and Drink
19. Sanctuary
20. Searing Smite
21. Shield of Faith
22. Thunderous Smite
23. Wrathful Smite

2nd Level:

1. Aid
2. Augury
3. Blindness/Deafness
4. Branding Smite
5. Calm Emotions
6. Darkvision
7. Detect Thoughts
8. Enhance Ability
9. Enthrall
10. Find Steed
11. Find Traps
12. Gentle Repose
13. Hold Person
14. Lesser Restoration
15. Mind Spike
16. Prayer of Healing
17. Ray of Enfeeblement
18. Silence
19. Spiritual Weapon
20. Suggestion
21. Warding Bond
22. Zone of Truth

3rd Level:

1. Animate Dead
2. Aura of Vitality
3. Beacon of Hope
4. Bestow Curse
5. Blinding Smite
6. Create Food and Water
7. Crusader's Mantle
8. Fear
9. Glyph of Warding
10. Life Transference
11. Magic Circle
12. Mass Healing Word
13. Remove Curse
14. Revivify
15. Speak with Dead
16. Spirit Guardians
17. Summon Lesser Demons
18. Tongues
19. Water Walk

4th Level:

1. Aura of Life​
2. Aura of Purity​
3. Banishment​
4. Compulsion​
5. Confusion​
6. Death Ward​
7. Divination​
8. Find Greater Steed​
9. Guardian of Faith​
10. Locate Creature​
11. Sickening Radiance​
12. Staggering Smite​
13. Storm Sphere​
14. Summon Greater Demon​

5th Level:

1. Banishing Smite
2. Circle of Power
3. Commune
4. Danse Macabre
5. Dawn
6. Destructive Wave
7. Dispel Evil and Good
8. Dominate Person
9. Flame Strike
10. Geas
11. Greater Restoration
12. Hallow
13. Hold Monster
14. Holy Weapon
15. Infernal Calling
16. Mass Cure Wounds
17. Raise Dead
18. Skill Empowerment
19. Wall of Light

6th Level:

1. Blade Barrier
2. Circle of Death
3. Create Undead
4. Find the Path
5. Harm
6. Heal
7. Heroes' Feast
8. Magic Jar
9. Mass Suggestion
10. Mental Prison
11. Planar Ally
12. Soul Cage
13. True Seeing
14. Word of Recall

7th Level:

1. Conjure Celestial
2. Crown of Stars
3. Divine Word
4. Plane Shift
5. Power Word Pain
6. Resurrection
7. Symbol
8. Temple of the Gods

8th Level:

1. Antipathy/Sympathy
2. Dominate Monster
3. Glibness
4. Holy Aura
5. Mind Blank
6. Power Word Stun
7. Telepathy

9th Level:

1. Foresight
2. Gate
3. Mass Heal
4. Power Word Heal
5. Power Word Kill
6. Psychic Scream
7. True Resurrection

Spoiler: PRIMAL (Druid/Ranger) Spell List

Total: 140

Cantrips:

1. Control Flames
2. Dancing Lights
3. Druidcraft
4. Gust
5. Mold Earth
6. Shape Water
7. Shillelagh

1st Level:

1. Absorb Elements
2. Animal Friendship
3. Beast Bond
4. Charm Person
5. Create or Destroy Water
6. Detect Poison and Disease
7. Earth Tremor
8. Ensnaring Strike
9. Entangle
10. Faerie Fire
11. False Life
12. Fog Cloud
13. Goodberry
14. Hail of Thorns
15. Hunter's Mark
16. Ice Knife
17. Inflict Wounds
18. Jump
19. Longstrider
20. Ray of Sickness
21. Snare
22. Speak with Animals
23. Witch Bolt
24. Zephyr Strike

2nd Level:

1. Alter Self
2. Animal Messenger
3. Barkskin
4. Beast Sense
5. Cordon of Arrows
6. Dust Devil
7. Earthbind
8. Flame Blade
9. Flaming Sphere
10. Gust of Wind
11. Healing Spirit
12. Heat Metal
13. Locate Animals or Plants
14. Maximilian's Earthen Grasp
15. Moonbeam
16. Pass without Trace
17. Protection from Poison
18. Shatter
19. Skywrite
20. Spike Growth
21. Warding Wind

3rd Level:

1. Call Lightning
2. Conjure Animals
3. Conjure Barrage
4. Daylight
5. Elemental Weapon
6. Erupting Earth
7. Feign Death
8. Flame Arrows
9. Lightning Arrow
10. Meld into Stone
11. Plant Growth
12. Protection from Energy
13. Sleet Storm
14. Speak with Plants
15. Thunder Step
16. Tidal Wave
17. Wall of Sand
18. Wall of Water
19. Water Breathing
20. Wind Wall

4th Level:

1. Blight
2. Charm Monster
3. Conjure Woodland Beings
4. Control Water
5. Dominate Beast
6. Elemental Bane
7. Freedom of Movement
8. Giant Insect
9. Grasping Vine
10. Guardian of Nature
11. Ice Storm
12. Stone Shape
13. Wall of Fire
14. Watery Sphere

5th Level:

1. Antilife Shell
2. Awaken
3. Commune with Nature
4. Conjure Elemental
5. Conjure Volley
6. Contagion
7. Control Winds
8. Immolation
9. Insect Plague
10. Maelstrom
11. Negative Energy Flood
12. Reincarnate
13. Scrying
14. Steel Wind Strike
15. Swift Quiver
16. Transmute Rock
17. Tree Stride
18. Wall of Stone
19. Wrath of Nature

6th Level:

1. Bones of the Earth
2. Conjure Fey
3. Druid Grove
4. Eyebite
5. Flesh to Stone
6. Investiture of Flame
7. Investiture of Ice
8. Investiture of Stone
9. Investiture of Wind
10. Primordial Ward
11. Sunbeam
12. Transport via Plants
13. Wall of Ice
14. Wall of Thorns
15. Wind Walk

7th Level:

1. Finger of Death
2. Fire Storm
3. Regenerate
4. Reverse Gravity
5. Simulacrum
6. Whirlwind

8th Level:

1. Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting
2. Animal Shapes
3. Control Weather
4. Earthquake
5. Feeblemind
6. Incendiary Cloud
7. Sunburst
8. Tsunami

9th Level:

1. Mass Polymorph
2. Meteor Swarm
3. Shapechange
4. Storm of Vengeance
5. True Polymorph
6. Weird

Here is the list by @vincegetorix :

D&D 5E - Reworking Spell Lists (Reducing "Sameyness")

Simulacrum Surely, Wizard. It's a construct of ice & illusion, a mockery of life. Crown of Stars (C/W)Between the two, Wizard. Glibness Power Word StunI'd say both Wizard. Power Word Kill WeirdBoth been Wizard spells, but Weird could go any way. ForesightAs usual, any could claim...

www.enworld.org

 

[Tony Vargas]

To begin with, the "Big 3" casters are Cleric, Druid, and Wizard. Half-casters under each are Paladin, Ranger, and Sorcerer, respectively.

The Sorcerer freak'n casts 9th level spells, it is not a half-caster. It might again be a Class-Tier 2 full caster, compare to your all-Tier-1-again Big 3, but it's a full caster.

However, the EK & AT both cast wizard spells while mostly grinding DPR in their own ways, so they'd correspond pretty closely the Pally & Ranger, that way.

The first focus is to take all the spells and organize them into the Big 3 lists. I will update this OP as progress is made.

I probably shouldn't point this out, but y'all are re-inventing the 4e concept of Source.

Cleric = Divine
Druid = Primal
Wizard = Arcane

 

[jmucchiello]

It's also the PF2 design space. They have a fourth called Mystic, for stuff like witches and hedge wizards.

And I think it is brilliant for expansion purposes. If you have a small number of spell lists that each class picks from, then you when you add a spell to the Arcane list, it boosts all arcane casters, not just wizards or sorcerers or warlocks.

But this thread seems like an even bigger rewrite.

 

[TwoSix]

The Sorcerer freak'n casts 9th level spells, it is not a half-caster. It might again be a Class-Tier 2 full caster, compare to your all-Tier-1-again Big 3, but it's a full caster.

However, the EK & AT both cast wizard spells while mostly grinding DPR in their own ways, so they'd correspond pretty closely the Pally & Ranger, that way.

This is potentially a bigger rewrite than just the spell lists. Sorcerer would be modified to be less wizard-like, and more about high expenditure of lower level effects.

In theory, at least. I'm still on the fence about whether bard or sorcerer should fill the arcane half-caster spot, but I'm comfortable with sorcerer for the time being.

I probably shouldn't point this out, but y'all are re-inventing the 4e concept of Source.

Cleric = Divine
Druid = Primal
Wizard = Arcane

That's because it's a really good idea! There's a reason PF2 borrowed it (and added occult), after all.

 

[Fenris-77]

This an optimistic forum when it comes to this kind of job. That's not a bad thing.

 

[TwoSix]

@dnd4vr

I think the cantrip list looks good. Only tweak I would suggest is moving Light to Wizard (it seems really iconic, dating back to Raistlin using it with the Staff of Magius) and True Strike to Cleric. It makes True Strike more of a "Patron diety, guide my blade!" sort of thing, which seems like it works for Cleric.

 

[TwoSix]

This an optimistic forum when it comes to this kind of job. That's not a bad thing.

Even if it doesn't work out, the fun is in the trying.

 

[Fenris-77]

I'd agree, light is pretty iconic as a Wizard thing. Mind you, mixing utility cantrips as a representation of 'basic magical manipulation wouldn't be awful. If you remove the argument from history I get why you slotted it in Cleric though.

 

[Minigiant]

I think going spell by spell division by class will end up putting spells in lists they don't really fit and pull spells from classes they match well with. Insteadpells could be tied to a nonclass grouping based on an iconic characteristic or category: Life, Death, Civil, Primal, Animal, Plant, Light, Darkness, Arcane, Divine. Then give each caster a set of these groupings

Cleric: Life, Death, Divine, + Domain
Druid: Animal, Plant, Primal,

Or make supercategories like power sources and give some classes all access to all the sub- category and some partial

Druid: All of Primal
Ranger: Animal and Plant from Primal and Divination from Arcana

 

[DND_Reborn]

@dnd4vr

I think the cantrip list looks good. Only tweak I would suggest is moving Light to Wizard (it seems really iconic, dating back to Raistlin using it with the Staff of Magius) and True Strike to Cleric. It makes True Strike more of a "Patron diety, guide my blade!" sort of thing, which seems like it works for Cleric.

I was also thinking of Gandalf in LotR ("Let's risk a bit more light" or whatever it was) for giving Wizard's Light. I originally had True Strike with Cleric, so that is good to me. It seems odd not having Cleric with Light, though, but compromises and rethinking is needed of course. I'll update and finalize the cantrip list now.