Revised (Slightly) Character Advancement Table

  • Thread starter Thread starter WhosDaDungeonMaster
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WhosDaDungeonMaster

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So, I doubt this has bothered many of you, but it bothered me so I decided to do something about it. :)

I noticed in the Character Advancement Table, you need 21000 EXP to go from 10th to 11th level, but you only need 15000, 20000, and 20000 for the next three levels. In my revised version, the amounted needed for advancement is smoother. You will notice the first few levels take slightly longer, but the other levels are achieved faster (approximately one level sooner than RAW).

[TABLE="width: 477"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Level[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Current Table[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Needed for Next Level[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Revised Table[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Needed for Next Level[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]600[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]750[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]900[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1800[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1250[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1750[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2,700[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3800[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6,500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]48,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]64,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]85,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]62000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]80000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]120,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]140,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]122500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]165,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]150000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]195,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]180000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]225,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]215000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]265,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]255000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]305,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]355,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]350000[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I think it will work rather well and not be enough of a change to break anything, but I was curious as to others thoughts. If you have any on this, please share and thanks.
 

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James Grover said:
So, I doubt this has bothered many of you, but it bothered me so I decided to do something about it. :)

I noticed in the Character Advancement Table, you need 21000 EXP to go from 10th to 11th level, but you only need 15000, 20000, and 20000 for the next three levels. In my revised version, the amounted needed for advancement is smoother. You will notice the first few levels take slightly longer, but the other levels are achieved faster (approximately one level sooner than RAW).

[TABLE="width: 477"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Level[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Current Table[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Needed for Next Level[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Revised Table[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Needed for Next Level[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]600[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]750[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]900[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1800[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1250[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1750[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2,700[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3800[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6,500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]48,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]64,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]85,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]62000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]80000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]120,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]140,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]122500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]165,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]150000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]195,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]180000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]225,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]215000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]265,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]255000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]305,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]355,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]350000[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I think it will work rather well and not be enough of a change to break anything, but I was curious as to others thoughts. If you have any on this, please share and thanks.
Click to expand...
Check your math. You're needed for next doesn't match the next level's base.

Also, as an aside, there is a method to the XP table madness. Before you change a thing, you should know what the thing does.
 

James Grover said:
I noticed in the Character Advancement Table, you need 21000 EXP to go from 10th to 11th level, but you only need 15000, 20000, and 20000 for the next three levels.
Click to expand...

FYI, the designers have said that this is intentional, in that 11th level is a huge level at which you enter another 'tier'. I don't know if this changes your view- I understand the aesthetic objection- but just so you know.
 

I use milestone XP anyway. The standard XP advancement is way too slow for my typical campaign that runs around 9 months and meets biweekly.
Plus, when you're running published adventures, your characters are almost never at the recommended levels anyway. Might as well hand wave the XP.
 

For our own table, since I prefer a slower progression, the house rule is to zero out the XPs once a level is obtained.
 

James Grover said:
So, I doubt this has bothered many of you, but it bothered me so I decided to do something about it. :)

I noticed in the Character Advancement Table, you need 21000 EXP to go from 10th to 11th level, but you only need 15000, 20000, and 20000 for the next three levels. In my revised version, the amounted needed for advancement is smoother. You will notice the first few levels take slightly longer, but the other levels are achieved faster (approximately one level sooner than RAW).

[TABLE="width: 477"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Level[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Current Table[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Needed for Next Level[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Revised Table[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Needed for Next Level[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]1[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]600[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]750[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]900[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1800[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1250[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1750[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2,700[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3800[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6,500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]7500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]9000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]6500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]23,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]11000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]34,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]48,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]10[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]64,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]21000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]11[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]85,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]62000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]18000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]80000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]120,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]100000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]22500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]140,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]25000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]122500[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27500[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]165,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]150000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]195,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]180000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]35000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]225,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]215000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]18[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]265,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]40000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]255000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]305,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]300000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]50000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]20[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]355,000[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]350000[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I think it will work rather well and not be enough of a change to break anything, but I was curious as to others thoughts. If you have any on this, please share and thanks.
Click to expand...
Your table appears to move people a whisker slower through tier one, a bit faster through tier two, and then slower through three and four. The virtue of doing that hinges on what kind of game you want to run, but there are some background concerns oriented to the rules themselves.

As written, the XP table moves characters briskly through tier 1. The game design appears to treat tier 1 as a trainer or introduction to D&D. Key class features are drip fed to characters through the four levels, finally hitting the ASI for some customisation at four, and then 5th will often double down on some central idea, such as an Extra Attack.

It then slows the pace through tier 2. The game design appears most robust through these levels. It feels to me like massively more playtesting has been done on these class features, spells etc than for later tiers. Play is contained within a hugely wide, but largely well understood and controlled space. All through this tier, characters gain distinctive features - pillars of the D&D game feel - like the fireball spell.

The pace then speeds up again in 3 and 4. I'm running mid-tier 3 now and the play is palpably wilder-and-woollier! We're using a few even higher tier spells like Plane Shift (via an NPC) and those are pronouncedly hand-waved. Play starts to enter a vast space, where it's hard to say exactly whats on the table. It's notable that published adventuring material caps out mid-tier 3. For me, the rules show strain in late-tier 3: they feel less robust than they do for tier 2.

Were I running a game with a strict time-frame, with experienced players, I'd possibly generate characters at 3rd or 4th level, and run it to 13th or 14th level. Possibly in that situation, one of the other advancement options could make more sense? We're going to have 18 sessions so we want to advance a level every other session, on average. Have you considered something like that?
 

As mentioned by others there is a reason why the XP is the way it is. As long as you are aware of that, I see now issues. My group doesn't even use XP so my recommendation would be to throw it out all together! One of the nice thing about not using XP is that the group doesn't default to the idea that they have to kill everything to advance.
 

Ovinomancer said:
Check your math. You're needed for next doesn't match the next level's base.
Click to expand...

My math is perfect, thank you very much. The needed for next level is the difference between the current level and the new one. For example, I have 64000 EXP at 10th, I need 21000 more to reach 11th, which is a total of 85000.
 

the Jester said:
FYI, the designers have said that this is intentional, in that 11th level is a huge level at which you enter another 'tier'. I don't know if this changes your view- I understand the aesthetic objection- but just so you know.
Click to expand...

I figured that might be the case and wondered about it, and I appreciate the confirmation, but personally don't see a reason for it. For my aesthetic's, I do prefer a continually progressive EXP curve (hence, why I made my version). Since I wasn't into 5E during development and initial release, I am sure a lot of my issues with it are likely the designer's intent and simply a disagreement of gaming style/ preference.
 

clearstream said:
We're going to have 18 sessions so we want to advance a level every other session, on average. Have you considered something like that?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input clearstream. My original idea was to advance characters at a session pace (you play X sessions to obtain Level X, e.g. 4 sessions is needed to make 4th Level), with a "session" being 4-5 hours roughly. But, since I am new to 5E, I wanted to try the EXP table and have been leveling characters that way. In looking ahead, was when I noticed the odd jump and retracement of needed experience for the next level.

So far, we have played three times, but the long hours equate to two sessions (9 hours), three sessions (13 hours), and two sessions (8 hours). Using my session-based scheme, they are about half-way from 3rd Level to 4th Level, which matches their EXP totals fairly closely. I don't mind tracking the EXP since I am doing it all in Excel anyway, but I might go to a session-based scheme in the future. We'll see.
 
Last edited:

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