D&D 5E Resurrection & Healing Magic with a price ... for the caster

[akr71]

I know some groups play that Resurrection, Raise Dead or Revivify are not automatically successful. Critical Role has coupled Resurrection with Skill Challenges when characters die and it certainly adds tension to the game. For the one being raised, there can be penalties as well - Resurrection Sickness and levels of exhaustion.

What about the caster though? Besides the cost, why don't clerics go around healing and raising as many as possible? Has anyone played where the casting of healing magic takes a toll on the caster? Something that lasts beyond the casting time of the spell? If so, what?

 

[Fenris-77]

I have to say, having played some other systems where there is more risk and consequence involved in magic, I like the idea. I don't know how easy it would be to just tack this onto the existing 5E rules though. The listed consequences for those three spells seem like an easy add though, that should be fine. In other games the risk is encompassed in the skill roll to cast the spell in the first place, which D&D obviously doesn't have. The issue is that simply adding consequence is a straight nerf to the class. That's fine if that's what you want, but it might not be.

The easiest thing I can think of is decouple caster level and allowed level of spell known and cast. Instead, casters gain mastery levels as they level up and that determines what spells they can cast without risk. Those would be the same as levels at which they would normally first gain access to that spell level. So a first level mage could cast fireball if he knew it, but as it's two mastery levels higher than his competency there would be serious risks. To take that a step further, allow spells below your mastery level to be cast with no skill roll, spells at your level to be cast with a moderate DC, and then pump the DC for every spell level above the characters mastery level. A failed roll means you roll on the consequence table, which should probably range from the somewhat inconvenient to the really painful. Maybe put the worst results at the high end of the table and add a positive mod to the role for every level of difference between mastery and spell level.

I'd probably encompass any rolls to hit into the skill check to cast so there aren't two rolls. Link spell casting to Arcana and Religion, and disallow Expertise and other mods for casting rolls.

 

[Prakriti]

For resurrection, an XP penalty could work, if you're using XP.

For healing, maybe just exhaustion.

 

[humble minion]

What about the caster though? Besides the cost, why don't clerics go around healing and raising as many as possible? Has anyone played where the casting of healing magic takes a toll on the caster? Something that lasts beyond the casting time of the spell? If so, what?

It makes a lot of sense in-world, but in-game it can be a bit of a problem at times. Healing/curing/resurrecting/revivifying is for a lot of people the least fun bit about playing a cleric - you're often required to save some of your most powerful spell slots to help out other PCs rather than do fun stuff yourself. If a house rule means that on top of this, a cleric takes in-game penalties for doing this stuff as well, it becomes a real discouragement to playing a cleric, or to healing/raising people if you do.

In many groups, playing the cleric is only done reluctantly anyway, by someone who'd prefer to be playing something else but who knows there has to be a cleric for party balance. Piling XP penalties (or whatever) on the reluctant player of a cleric PC for doing the job they feel themselves obliged to do isn't going to make party or group dynamics any better.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I know some groups play that Resurrection, Raise Dead or Revivify are not automatically successful. Critical Role has coupled Resurrection with Skill Challenges when characters die and it certainly adds tension to the game. For the one being raised, there can be penalties as well - Resurrection Sickness and levels of exhaustion.

What about the caster though? Besides the cost, why don't clerics go around healing and raising as many as possible? Has anyone played where the casting of healing magic takes a toll on the caster? Something that lasts beyond the casting time of the spell? If so, what?

An idea I had, which I haven't actually gotten around to trying, is that the life force is taken from the cleric.

If the cleric casts Raise Dead on someone, the caster loses half of their remaining lifespan and the target gains it. So if a cleric has 20 years left to live, after raising a target both they and the target only have 10 years to live.

However, willing individuals can participate in the spell and share their life force. If one other creature aids the caster, then they both only sacrifice 25% of their remaining life spans (which is gained by the target). If 9 other individuals assist, then everyone only sacrifices 5%. But trust is important, since if any of the individuals is unwilling (they agreed to save face but aren't actually willing to make the sacrifice) all of the other participants shoulder the additional burden.

On top of all of this, life force is roughly the same for everyone. Elves and other long lived races burn their life force more slowly than other races, while short lived races burn more quickly. As such, races have a multiplier that normalizes their life force. An elf who raises a human may be giving up hundreds of years of life to grant the human mere decades, while the opposite is true if a human raises an elf.

I added that part so that an elf raising a human doesn't grant the human an unnaturally long life span, although that could be an interesting direction to go if you were interested. That could even be the origin of half elves.

What this means is that clerics will be quite ungenerous with regard to raising the dead, particularly for strangers. After all, if the stranger's "friends" say they are willing but prove unwilling, the cleric is giving up half their remaining life span, which is likely no small thing. It is likely only a boon granted to very trusted individuals or under extreme circumstances.

 

[Horwath]

It makes a lot of sense in-world, but in-game it can be a bit of a problem at times. Healing/curing/resurrecting/revivifying is for a lot of people the least fun bit about playing a cleric - you're often required to save some of your most powerful spell slots to help out other PCs rather than do fun stuff yourself. If a house rule means that on top of this, a cleric takes in-game penalties for doing this stuff as well, it becomes a real discouragement to playing a cleric, or to healing/raising people if you do.

In many groups, playing the cleric is only done reluctantly anyway, by someone who'd prefer to be playing something else but who knows there has to be a cleric for party balance. Piling XP penalties (or whatever) on the reluctant player of a cleric PC for doing the job they feel themselves obliged to do isn't going to make party or group dynamics any better.

This,

I would even put ALL healing spells on Bonus actions so cleric can do some offensive work in the round he/she is healing.

As for resurrection penalty, I would give it only to the target. Something like.

Raise Dead, age 20% of your maximum age
Resurrection, age 10% of your maximum age
True resurrection, age 5% of you maximum age

 

[akr71]

All interesting thoughts. I hadn't considered aging - my train of thought was headed toward a level of exhaustion or a transfer of hit dice. Something that has an in-game cost, but is easily mitigated with a long rest or two.

Also, many of the groups I play with do not have a cleric, so for the 'big' spells they end up relying on healing services at a temple, if they can find one. I began wondering why the local temples don't heal everyone possible - I hit on the idea that such spells might be taxing to the caster... but how so?

However, not all holy people in my setting are clerics and able to cast spells either.

Its not something I'm ready to implement in my game, but more of a thought experiment.

 

[toucanbuzz]

In original AD&D, the caster had to give up 1 point of Constitution permanently to raise up the dead, and the recipient lost 1 point of Constitution. Hardcore, but you could homebrew that you can cast, or be raised, as many times as you have Constitution points.

As to why clerics don't go around healing everyone, two things: ethos and rarity. If you aren't furthering the specific ethos of the deity, you aren't advancing the cause. Some might even perceive healing as an insult, such as Tempus, god of battle. Perhaps a great general taken by the poisonous dart of an assassin would be saved to be given another chance to lead that next great battle, but the soldier who fought bravely will die bravely on the battlefield, in the eyes of the cleric of Tempus.

And, while many temples have followers, few are going to have persons not only dedicated enough to sacrifice everything to follow that deity, but also be able to handle the rigors of channeling a god's power through them. The Dark Sun setting (AD&D, popular post-apocalyptic desert world with the elements giving clerical power, not gods) had a pretty severe process to become a cleric. For example, a person who sought to become a cleric of Air would have to leap from a cliff after years of training. If the powers of Air accepted their willingness to serve and advance the nature of air wholeheartedly, they'd be saved from their fall. If not...well, that's why there's not a lot of clerics.

 

[jasper]

An idea I had, which I haven't actually gotten around to trying, is that the life force is taken from the cleric.

If the cleric casts Raise Dead on someone, the caster loses half of their remaining lifespan and the target gains it. So if a cleric has 20 years left to live, after raising a target both they and the target only have 10 years to live.

....no small thing. It is likely only a boon granted to very trusted individuals or under extreme circumstances.

Jasper ghosts sees the party has went cheap and hired an orc cleric and ignores the call. How about getting an elf once in a while. IFIC 1e had the caster losing years on certain casting.

 

[Umbran]

Has anyone played where the casting of healing magic takes a toll on the caster? Something that lasts beyond the casting time of the spell? If so, what?

Not quite. I've run it that the various ways of bringing someone back from the dead requires the personal intervention of some entity from the afterlife - a god, Celestial, or what have you - and that entity will need a service from someone - typically the deceased, but possibly from the caster. In those cases, when bringing someone back from the dead, someone has to take a geas/quest for the entity involved.

It can then really benefit you to get raised by a cleric of a deity with similar aims to yours - then you get sent on a quest the likes of which you'd take on anyway. If you just go to the nearest cleric, the results can be a bit awkward.