Resisting saving throws while unconscious

[maggot]

If a character is unconscious, do they resist spells? Obviously, you should get a save versus poison even if unconscious?

What about harmless spells that could be harmful like teleport? What about potentially harmful spells like polymorph other that might be used for beneficial effect?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Believe it or not, you still get a reflex save while asleep (albeit with a dex of 0).

So yes. Saves while you sleep or are unconscious.

 

[Samothdm]

Reflex Save While Paralyzed?

What about a reflex save vs. spells while paralyzed? This came up in our session yesterday. The DM ruled it as "no" (because it requires a "physical action"). That made sense to me.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Believe it or not, you still get a reflex save while asleep (albeit with a dex of 0).

I'm going to challenge that one.

As I understand it, you always get Will and Fort saves, but you don't get Reflex saves if you're immobile.

From the SRD description of Evasion: "As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one in a completely restrictive area (crawling through a 2 1/2-foot-wide shaft, for example) cannot use evasion."

From the SRD description of Ability Scores: "DEX 0 means that the character cannot move at all. He stands motionless, rigid, and helpless."

If you're asleep, you can't move; if you can't move, no Reflex save.

-Hyp.

 

[Stalker0]

Got to agree with the smurf on this one.

OF course if you really want to get hairy then how does an unconscious guy always know not to resist against those cure lights from his party

 

[The Souljourner]

Yeah, reflex saves are just that - reflex. Diving out of the building just before it explodes, that sort of thing. If you physically cannot move, I would rule you get no reflex save. It makes no sense that an unconscious character with a good reflex save could take less damage from a fireball than a conscious character who dives out of the way.

-The Souljourner

 

[Geoff Watson]

The rule quoted only applies to Evasion.

I don't see any problem with unconcious characters succeeding at saving throws due to things like powerful magic items or divine grace, etc. They'll still need to roll high due to the effective 0 Dex.

Geoff.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The rule quoted only applies to Evasion.

The rule says that to use Evasion, you need room to move, as with a Reflex save for any creature.

To clarify:
To use Evasion, you need room to move.
For any creature to make a Reflex save, it needs room to move.

Room to move is of no use if you are unable to move.

-Hyp.

 

[hammymchamham]

I'm with Hyp on this for all of the reasons he stated

 

[Destil]

I'd have to argue that point. While it does say that in the section of the PH on evasion, it does not in the general discussion of reflex saves in the PH or DMG. I find it very hard to believe that something as important as that is ignored everywhere excpet in a little note about evasion and dosn't apply to only evasion.

With an abstract combat system denying reflex saves, aside form being unfair, isn't as big an issue of logic.