D&D 5E Recommended magic item creation alternative rules?

CapnZapp

Legend
Can you recommend any good alternatives for magic item creation rules?

Ideally, a ruleset that adopts the following assumptions:
1a) useful items are more expensive than useless items
1b) rarity is a poor basis for price

2a) players of published adventures enjoy magic item creation just as much as any other player
2b) published adventures seldom allow extensive downtime, hunts for exotic ingredients. Requiring payments of huge amounts of gold is okay, however

Someone must have have taken a d20/Pathfindr:ish stab at 5th Edition...?
 

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I'm not finished, cause the 5e style was fitting my campaign's magic level/rarity fairly well, but my initial thought was to change the gp/day in 5e item creation and change it to gp/hour.

That speeds things up. May have other notes, will check after work.
 

I wanted a fair bit of magic item creation in my 3.5 game so I used the default item values but the time formula was Square Root (Market Price)/20 in days rounded up.

Significantly faster for high value items and about the same or slightly higher for the lowest cost items.

In 5e I'd work off the 3.5 prices with an eye on the +X items.
 

Here is my try:

Crafting

Not presented in any detail in the core rulebooks, spellcasters do make items in Mazariim. Crafting has a number of requirements:

Caster Level
The minimum caster level required depends on the item's rarity and the spells used in its creation. Use whichever requirement is higher. Some items without a specific spell can reference caster levels in from item creation in 3.5 or Pathfinder if necessary.

Common - 1st level
Uncommon - 4th level
Rare - 8th level
Very Rare - 12th level
Legendary - 17th level

For example:
- Although an Amulet of the Planes is a very rare item which needs a minimum of caster level 12, the item needs the spell plane shift as a requirement which has a caster level of 13th, since it is a 7th level spell and available to casters at that level 13.
- A Dragon Slayer weapon functions as a bane weapon against dragons, and the bane property would be considered CL 8 on any weapon.
- Wounding is a rare frequency, but is listed as CL 10 in Pathfinder and seems a little more powerful than a bane weapon, so CL 10 is appropriate.

All costs and time depend on the CL of the item and item rarity. Generally, use whichever cost is higher.

[TABLE="width: 192"][TR][TD="class: xl64, width: 64"]CL[/TD][TD="class: xl64, width: 64"]Cost (gp)[/TD][TD="class: xl64, width: 64"]Time to Craft (days)[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]
[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]
[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]
[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]1[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]100[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]1[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]2[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]200[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]1[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]3[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]500[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]2[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]4[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]1000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]4[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]5[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]2000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]8[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]6[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]3000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]12[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]7[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]4000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]8[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]5000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]9[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]10000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]40[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]10[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]15000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]11[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]20000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]80[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]12[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]25000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]13[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]35000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]140[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]14[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]50000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]200[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]15[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]75000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]16[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]100000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]400[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]17[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]125000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]500[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]18[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]150000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]600[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]19[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]200000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]800[/TD][/TR][TR][TD="class: xl64"]20[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]250000[/TD][TD="class: xl64"]1000[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
Spells / Feats / Class Abilities
Crafters must have any spells, feats, or class powers the item uses or emulates on their class lists or as spells known.

Time
All items take 1 day per 250gp in value to create. The crafter must spend 8 hours of uninterrupted quiet to work on the magical item.

Recipe/Tome
Each magical item has a specific recipe. Every time a crafter gains a spellcasting level, they gain one new recipe of their choice of a rarity they can currently craft. Additional recipes can be found or even purchased in certain parts of the world.

Place
The caster needs a laboratory/library, shrine, or grove to create the item, a value no less than 1000gp per caster level of the item in question to reflect books, apparatus, forges, furnaces, shrines, consecrated altars, groves, rare herbs, and so on. Libraries, Shrines, and Groves represent not only RP-based locations for characters and NPCs, but also represent the locations players can develop and personalize, as well as use for many other things including researching existing spells and creating new ones, performing rituals, ceremonies, and mystical rites, and of course the construction of magical items

Every lab, shrine, or grove has a gp value that represents the items purchased or found to create it. These player-created locations need a value of 1,000 gp x caster level of the item to be created, level of spell to be researched, ritual to be performed, or any other use determined by the DM.

For example, to create a 1st level potion a lab, shrine, or grove valued at 1000gp is needed. Performing a 3rd level ritual would require a location valued at 5,000 gp. Researching an 8th level spell, would require a location valued at 15,000 gp (caster level 15).
In addition, all clerical shrines and druid groves are created with the Hallow spell (5th level).

A shrine or grove takes at least 1 day per 1,000 gp value to create, at times longer, depending on resources available according to the DM. Thus, the most powerful libraries, shrines, and groves cost 20,000 gp and take around 20 days to make or collect, representing the 1,000 gp for the spell x caster level 20.

Examples:
Zanadu is a 9th level wizard who lives in Amara, a large city. He has rented a room at a high-priced dwelling in the noble district and has the feats Practical Crafter and Scepter Crafter. He has gathered 9,000gp worth of books and tomes on esoteric crafting topics, forges and smelters, inks, quills, various tools for working on jewelry woodworking benches and tools, and other supplies. Since Amara is a large city, he was able to obtain the value of his library quickly between adventures. He can craft items up to CL 9 and research up to 5th level spells.

Noah is a 7th level cleric of Tiovin who lives in Blowing Rock, a small town. He lives in a small home outside of town and has the feat Practical Crafter and wants to research new divine magics. He has had a falling out with the head priest in the church so he needs to do things on his own without the help of church resources. He has invested 5,000gp in his shrine, which includes a casting of the hallow spell, a altar dedicated to his god, a number of holy relics, a few holy tomes (not spellbooks) and a large number of alchemical and potionbrewing supplies. Although he is 7th level, his shrine only has enough value to research up to 3rd level spells, although he can brew potions of 3rd level and lower. It took time to build up his shrine's value, requiring trips to Amara and Instar over many weeks.

Kranktor is a 12th level druid who lives in the middle of the Weeping Woods. He lives outdoors and is always near the druid grove he created. He has the feats Practical Crafter and Martial Crafter. He has accumulated a grove worth 12,000gp over time by gathering components, hunting animals, and creating homemade brewing equipment. His grove also has a hallow spell cast upon it. In addition, out-of-character he turned in the gp value of the grove to represent the process and keep balance. He can make any potions as well as scribe scrolls on animal hides of up to 6th level spells and create magical bows, arrows, and quaterstaves from wood, and can research new druid spells of up to the same level.

Rodolpho is a traveling 4th level bard who never sleeps in the same place twice. He lives in a new inn almost every night, and has the Practical Crafter feat. He has accumulated a library and brewing station worth 2,000gp and keeps it inside a bag of holding he found. He can spend 1 hour setting up his brewing equipment and then proceed to make potions and scrolls, although the location must be quiet and free form distractions. He has been known to set up his rare inks and quills to scribe scrolls while in a dungeon, but can only get 50% as much work done as per the standard rules. In addition, this is his 2nd set of research gear, as a goblin ambush destroyed his set up when they attacked unexpectedly while in a dungeon. (lol)



Item Creation Feat
Crafters must take an Item Creation feat to make magical items. Note that Common items can be created without a feat as long as the crafter has proficiency in the correct set of tools (Alchemist's tools, Holy Rites Kit, or Herbalism Kit) and can cast the necessary spells. Common items include a few potions (healing, climbing) and cantrip and 1st level spell scrolls.

- Artisan Crafter
You have learned the art of forging magical rings and wondrous items.
You can forge rings and create wondrous items found in the DMG. Minimum costs and time to craft are as shown below, but may be higher because of caster level as the DM decides. The DM may allow the powers of some items to be applied to a different type of item. For example, a belt of swimming and climbing could be made rather than a set of gloves.

- Martial Crafter
You have learned the art of forging magical armor and weapons using a variety of materials, spells, and exotic tools.
You can create weapons and armor found in the DMG. Minimum costs and time to craft are as shown below, but may be higher because of caster level as the DM allows. Magical powers found on weapons and armor in the DMG can be placed on any type of weapon or armor and can have variants based around the same power level. For example, a Flame Tongue weapon quality could be placed on any type of weapon and it would be of the same rarity, and would have a minimum caster level and a minimum cost as listed above. Note that shields and ammunition do not have attack bonuses.

- Practical Crafter
You have learned the art of making disposable magical items, namely alchemy and scroll-making, and can create potions, oils, and scrolls.
You can brew potions and oils found in the DMG or by using spells on your spell list. Minimum caster level is the level of the spell, or by rarity as above. Costs for brewing potions are 50 gp × the level of the spell × the caster level, or by rarity as above, minimum cost 100gp. Potions not listed in the DMG cannot have spells above 3rd level. Potions must have a range of self, touch, or be able to affect a target within sight. The spell cannot require concentration. Spells that require attack rolls, saving throws, or otherwise harm others cannot be made into potions. Any costs incurred in casting the spell need to be added to the cost of the potion during creation. Potions take at least 1 day to make.
You can scribe scrolls using spells on your spell list. Minimum caster level is the level of the spell, or by rarity as above. Costs for scribing scrolls are 25 gp × the level of the spell × the caster level. Any costs incurred in casting the spell need to be added to the cost of the scroll during creation. Scrolls take at least 1 day to scribe.

- Scepter Crafter
You have learned the art of making rods, staffs, and wands.
You can create rods, staffs, and wands found in the DMG. Minimum costs are as shown below, but may be considerably higher because of caster level as the DM decides. The DM may allow the powers of some items to be unique and in line with other similar items. For example, a wand of acid might use spells of a similar level to those in a wand of fire and thereby be of similar cost and caster level.
 
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Did some armors as examples:

By Property
[TABLE="width: 629"][TR][TD]Property[/TD][TD]Example Item[/TD][TD]CL[/TD][TD]Cost[/TD][TD]Time to Craft[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC Bonus, Armor +1[/TD][TD]Armor +1[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC bonus, Armor +2[/TD][TD]Armor, +2[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC bonus, Armor +3[/TD][TD]Armor, +3[/TD][TD]16[/TD][TD]100,000[/TD][TD]400[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Animated[/TD][TD]Animated Shield[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Arrow Snaring[/TD][TD]Arrow-catching Shield[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Etheralness[/TD][TD]Plate Armor of Etherealness[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]75,000[/TD][TD]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Fortification[/TD][TD]Adamantine Armor[/TD][TD]13[/TD][TD]35,000[/TD][TD]140[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Glamered[/TD][TD]Glamoured Studded Leather[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]15,000[/TD][TD]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Immovability / AC[/TD][TD]Dwarven Plate[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Immunity / AC[/TD][TD]Efreeti Chain[/TD][TD]18[/TD][TD]150,000[/TD][TD]600[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Invulnerability[/TD][TD]Armor of Invulnerability[/TD][TD]18[/TD][TD]150,000[/TD][TD]600[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]no proficiency req.[/TD][TD]Elven Chain[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]15,000[/TD][TD]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]no Stealth / Strength disavantage[/TD][TD]Mithral Armor[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Perception/Initiative[/TD][TD]Sentinel Shield[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance (elemental)[/TD][TD]Armor of Resistance[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance (magic)[/TD][TD]Spellguard Shield[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]75,000[/TD][TD]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance / related ability[/TD][TD]Dragon Scale Mail[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Swimming[/TD][TD]Mariner's Armor[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

By Caster Level

[TABLE="width: 629"][TR][TD]Property[/TD][TD]Example Item[/TD][TD]CL[/TD][TD]Cost[/TD][TD]Time to Craft[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Perception/Initiative[/TD][TD]Sentinel Shield[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance (elemental)[/TD][TD]Armor of Resistance[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Swimming[/TD][TD]Mariner's Armor[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC Bonus, Armor +1[/TD][TD]Armor +1[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Arrow Snaring[/TD][TD]Arrow-catching Shield[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]no Stealth / Strength disavantage[/TD][TD]Mithral Armor[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Glamered[/TD][TD]Glamoured Studded Leather[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]15,000[/TD][TD]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]no proficiency req.[/TD][TD]Elven Chain[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]15,000[/TD][TD]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC bonus, Armor +2[/TD][TD]Armor, +2[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Animated[/TD][TD]Animated Shield[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Immovability / AC[/TD][TD]Dwarven Plate[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance / related ability[/TD][TD]Dragon Scale Mail[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Fortification[/TD][TD]Adamantine Armor[/TD][TD]13[/TD][TD]35,000[/TD][TD]140[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Etheralness[/TD][TD]Plate Armor of Etherealness[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]75,000[/TD][TD]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance (magic)[/TD][TD]Spellguard Shield[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]75,000[/TD][TD]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC bonus, Armor +3[/TD][TD]Armor, +3[/TD][TD]16[/TD][TD]100,000[/TD][TD]400[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Immunity / AC[/TD][TD]Efreeti Chain[/TD][TD]18[/TD][TD]150,000[/TD][TD]600[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Invulnerability[/TD][TD]Armor of Invulnerability[/TD][TD]18[/TD][TD]150,000[/TD][TD]600[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
DMs could of course alter item level requirements as suited for their campaign, as well as costs. These are just examples that I did and might not be 100% balanced, but I tried to use the 5e rarity system as a guide.
 
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The idea of needing the recipe or schema and having it be more expensive than making the item is something I'd add to my crafting rules even though I adjust the crafting time and costs.

Limiting access to the recipies gives the DM control over what items to let into a home campaign. And the recipes themselves can be rewards or items to quest for.
 

1a) useful items are more expensive than useless items
1b) rarity is a poor basis for price

2a) players of published adventures enjoy magic item creation just as much as any other player
2b) published adventures seldom allow extensive downtime, hunts for exotic ingredients. Requiring payments of huge amounts of gold is okay, however
Why is rarity a poor factor in price? Does your government implement price controls? If not, it's pretty obvious that a seller is going to hold out for the highest price he can get, while competing buyers push each other's prices up.

Just use these rules:
1) Charge whatever the heck you want. 3d100.
2) If you feel you charged too little, the item is cursed.
3) If you feel you charged too much, then other interested parties think the item has exceptional value, so they pursue it even after it has a new owner...
 

DMMike,

I am not interested in discussing the DMG rules and its merits or lack thereof - in this thread. Feel free to start a new thread if you are genuinely interested in discussing "rarity as pricing basis".

In this thread, please assume that discussion is over and done with, and post alternatives. This is all about alternatives, and not about why you would want to switch out the core rules. And to be honest: if you completely dislike how item creation was handled in 3rd edition, please pretty please start a new thread. This one is not for you.

As for your proposed rules: I want much more detail than you. Your approach is fine, only "whatever the heck I want" is not what I am looking for. At all. Please reread my original post before responding further.

Thank you.
 

Thank you Dragonsbane777! :)

A little feedback:

- Do you have any thoughts on campaigns where hundreds (or even dozens) of days simply aren't available because of story and plot concerns?

Published adventures are often on a tight schedule. ("The Evil Overlord will destroy our city in one week. Heroes, you are our only hope(s)!")

Do you have any suggestions for how your rules could work to allow adventurers participating in such scenarios and campaigns to still create desired items?



- As for feats: since they are optional, do you have a suggestion for how to add item creation to campaigns where feats are not an option?
 

From your rules, Dragonsbane777: Potions cannot contain spells requiring Concentration.

Hmm... interesting. Is this something you have deduced from the DMG or is it an additional limitation you have added yourself?

I mean, are you simply spelling out what you believe is an unwritten rule from the DMG?

Or are you convinced this limit needs to be added to the game?
 

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