Reach Weapons, Readying and Attacks of Opportunity

[Captain Trek]

In the most succinct possible terms: If I set a reach weapon against a charge, I spend my readied action to attack an opponent (who we'll assume is not carrying a reach weapon) as he approaches me, right? Well my question is: Do I, after making the readied attack, also get to make an attack of opportunity as the charger I just attacked leaves the square that I'm threatening to close the remainder of the distance and finish his charge against me?

 

[frankthedm]

Logically: Yes
RAW: Not guaranteed, but likely.

Potential issues include:

• Wording of the ready action trigger
• Charging movement's restrictions
• Rules on the gap medium creatures have in a reach weapon's threatened area by RAW

 

[Captain Trek]

Rules on the gap medium creatures have in a reach weapon's threatened area by RAW

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

You would get the readied action as soon as the foe comes within reach. You would get an AoO from his movement as soon as he left a square you threatened (and it's resolved before he leaves the square).

The ready and AoO do not conflict with each other. The only limits are one AoO per provoking action, and 1 AoO per turn, or 1 + dex mod AoOs if you have Combat Reflexes.

As for setting against a charge for x2 damage, I've always played it as only the readied attack getting that, not any AoOs that happen about the same time, as they're unrelated. The brace weapon rules have always been poorly worded, though, both in 3E and PF, so no idea what the RAW interpretation is there.

 

[Tovec]

I'm confused. You want to ready an action for when he provokes an attack of opportunity?

I have a few questions/issues with this, keep in mind I am no expert and am not looking at the Core at the moment.
A. Readying an action for when he comes into reach would be fine but that is not the same as an AOO, as one as he enters reach and the other is as he leaves it.
B. Why worry about the AOO at all? If you are readying vs. the charge that is just a prepared action and has nothing to do with him provoking AOO.
C. If you are talking about just general AOO then it all depends on what provokes and how. I'd have to look it up in that case, if you are just talking about an AOO but not a readied action then let me know and I'll look up some RAW for you.
D. OR are you asking if you would just get two attacks, one for entering space and one for leaving it? To this - yes.
E. (aka D pt.2) Assuming that his charge provokes an AOO.

 

[Captain Trek]

Thankyou very much, Storm. And yes, we already figured that one would only get the Brace bonus on the readied attack and not on the subsequent AOO. Our reasoning was indeed that the "Brace" quality only ever applies to an attack made using Readied action, and not to any other attacks the weapon might make (even if you happened to somehow get an AOO against someone while continuing to hold your Readied action).

Also, Tovec, I think you may be overthinking things. It was option D that we had in mind. As I said, we figured the enemy would charge into the weapon's 10 foot reach, get hit by the Readied attack once in that square, and then get hit by a subsequent AOO as he left that square (thus leaving a threatened area) in order to complete the charge. That's it.

This is somewhat similar to a situation we encountered a while before this in 3.5 where the DM was considering have a monster blow right past a PC who was ready with an attack (though with a normal weapon rather than a Reach one, mind you) in a 10-foot-wide corridor... That was until we reminded her that the PC would get both his Readied attack AND an AOO on the monster in that case... And yes, I know that seems like it should have been obvious to the DM... That sort of thing is why we have a different DM for the current Pathfinder game. XD

 

[frankthedm]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by that?

paizo.com - Rules Questions: Three questions for the Devs... or anyone... mostly the Devs...
A reach weapon gives a specific extension to your reach. When you count out squares, since every other square is doubled when you count diagonally, that means that there'll be corners where you can't reach.

The Pathfinder rules support this. There was a non-SRD entry in the 3.5 DMG that allowed 10' reach to NOT have holes at the corners, but Paizo did not include that in pathfinder. Later JJ changed his tune, though he had been correct by the RAW.

James Jacobs (Creative Director) wrote:
I suspect I might have ruled wrong on how reach works, but it makes logical sense to me. If you prefer to have reach fill an entire area around you rather than leave "holes" in the corners, that's fine. That's how most people rule it, I believe, and the sky hasn't fallen yet so it's probably okay.

 

[Steel_Wind]

You would get the readied action as soon as the foe comes within reach. You would get an AoO from his movement as soon as he left a square you threatened (and it's resolved before he leaves the square).

The ready and AoO do not conflict with each other. The only limits are one AoO per provoking action, and 1 AoO per turn, or 1 + dex mod AoOs if you have Combat Reflexes.

As for setting against a charge for x2 damage, I've always played it as only the readied attack getting that, not any AoOs that happen about the same time, as they're unrelated. The brace weapon rules have always been poorly worded, though, both in 3E and PF, so no idea what the RAW interpretation is there.

FWIW, I am in complete agreement within the above response. Stream is right in all respects here.

 

[Squire James]

Of course, this kind of situation is what the Stand Still feat is invented for! Get your readied attack (for double damage), then get an AoO. If the latter hits, the Stand Still feat kicks in and prevents the movement! This leaves the charger 10 feet away from you, probably unable to complete the charge, with quite a bit of damage for his trouble. You can observe how much metagaming the DM engages in by observing if anyone ever charges you again!

 

[Steel_Wind]

You can observe how much metagaming the DM engages in by observing if anyone ever charges you again!

Quite true. My Great Cleave/ Improved Cleaving Finish dwarf with a lucern hammer is an absolute terror on the battlefield - especially when enlarged. But lately I've been noticing the bad guys don't seem to stick together when Jarl is there -- even if they have swarming as a racial ability. And even if they have never met him before