Reach Weapons: Increased size, increase reach?

[cjosephs1s]

This question just came up in another forum as I was making a Crusader "tank" build using a Kasuri-Gama for a weapon for it. The one handed weapon (medium sized) has a 10 foot reach. If I increase the weapon to large size does the reach increase as well? What about Huge?

What about other reach weapons such as polearms?

Thanks all!

 

[Wyvernhand]

Reach as a weapon property is for the most part a bianary property. Reach doubles the natural reach of the wielder for all reach weapons other than the Whip. The amount of reach you get, then, is wholely dependant on the wielder, not the weapon. Increasing the size of the weapon makes no difference. You either have reach (and thus double your natural reach) or you don't (and only threaten your natural reach). If you increase the natural reach of the wielder, such as through Enlarge Person or Expansion, you will increase the overall reach granted by the weapon.

It's even debatable whether or not you can even get reach from a weapon sized larger than you. The PHB contains language about "appropriately sized" weapons. A large Kusiri Gama is not appropriately sized for a medium creature, even if he could wield it in both hands. A small sized Kusiri Gama would likewise not grant reach for a medium creature.

 

[emoplato]

The Savage Species dealt with this quite handily. Wielding a weapon one size above your category gives reach for that character even if does not have a reach property. Reach weapons of larger sizes wielding adds five more feat each size category above medium so large reach weapons used by medium characters can strike 15 ft away.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Savage Species is a 3.0 source. The 3.5 ruleset dramatically changed the way weapon sizes and handedness works. You can't use any rules in Savage Species without updating them to a 3.5 version, which dynamicly changes them.

 

[Greenfield]

Well, the SRD says...

Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

While this doesn't explicitly address the question, it sets some ground rules.

The second section I highlighted suggests that the larger weapon will increase Reach, if it's the appropriate size for the wielder. So unless you're enlarging the PC as well as the weapon, there's an argument there that the Reach doesn't increase.

Monkey Grip may help address this, but I'd say that that's your DM's call.

 

[cjosephs1s]

So basically one could use the 3.0 rules for it or let the DM decide on a case by case basis? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Greenfield]

It pretty much has to be on a case by case basis, even considering the Savage Species rule.

A Large shortsword is called a longsword or perhaps a Greatsword. That is, a 2 foot blade goes to 4 foot blade (with an uncomfortable grip). Decidedly not a Reach weapon.

Part of the problem with the idea of simply getting a longer long spear (as an example) is that the weapon might be longer, but for balance purposes you may have to grip it more in the middle. At that point it simply becomes a clumsy long spear, rather then a "extended reach" long spear.

Weapons like Ranseur or Halberd being enlarged is that the haft gets twice as long, but the head gets eight times heavier. The need to "choke up" on it increases geometrically.

Now, that's all rationalization, not rules. It's the lack of rules that raises the whole issue. But on the face of it, simply enlarging the weapon (but not the user) doesn't seem like it would do much to the effective reach of the item.

 

[cjosephs1s]

That's kind of what I was thinking. Gotta love when there's a lack of rules to cover what seems to be an easy question. Did they maybe address this problem in 4e somehow? or pathfinder?

 

[Neoiceshroom]

Doubling the reach of truly massive creatures doesn't make much sense. For example what do you do when you have a creature who is colossal in size and wields a Fullblade which is almost 90 feet long from Hilt-tip to Bladetip. His reach is only 30 so doubling his reach doesn't make much sense.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I actually asked CustServ about this more than once and got remarkably consistent advice: RAW, the PC's reach does not increase with using an oversized weapon; spirit of the rules, there is nothing about it that is particularly game breaking, and it adds fun, so do it if you want to- just be consistent.