Reach Weapon and Spiked Gauntlet

[The Souljourner]

Say I'm wielding a guisarme and I have a spiked gauntlet on my fist. When do I threaten with the gauntlet and/or the guisarme assuming I do one of the following on my turn:

1.) I make a full attack with the guisarme.
2.) I make a full attack with the gauntlet.
3.) I cast a spell without a somatic component.

Second question - can I attack with both the guisarme and the gauntlet in the same round? (obviously not at the same opponent) If so, what are the penalties, assuming I have the TWF feat?

-The Souljourner

 

[Darklone]

no no no no no no

Sorry. This is open to debate.
1) You only threaten with the guisarme
2) Only with the gauntlet
3) With one weapon of your choice

I would let you attack with both, but at normal TWF penalties, e.g. -2 to all attacks. In case you want to use a heavy shield instead of the gauntlets, -4 to everything.

I would even let you threaten with both weapons, but only if you took the -2 penalty on your attacks last round.

 

[The Souljourner]

But if you can threaten without making an attack with a weapon (as in #3), why is that not true if you have attacked with another weapon? Attacking with one weapon wipes out the ability to threaten with another, but casting a spell does not?

How about if, after I full attack with the guisarme, I toss it away (as a free action) leaving me with only the gauntlet. Do I not threaten with the gauntlet?

-The Souljourner

 

[Gnimish88]

But if you can threaten without making an attack with a weapon (as in #3), why is that not true if you have attacked with another weapon? Attacking with one weapon wipes out the ability to threaten with another, but casting a spell does not?

How about if, after I full attack with the guisarme, I toss it away (as a free action) leaving me with only the gauntlet. Do I not threaten with the gauntlet?

-The Souljourner

As long as you are holding the guisarme in both hands, the spiked gauntlet threatens no one. Just my 2 cp.

I would say you are right about full attack and then dropping the guisarme.

 

[Aaron2]

As long as you are holding the guisarme in both hands, the spiked gauntlet threatens no one. Just my 2 cp.

What if you just hold the guisarme with one hand, does that leave your other hand open for AoO?

You could do the same with a longbow.


Aaron

 

[Gnimish88]

What if you just hold the guisarme with one hand, does that leave your other hand open for AoO?

You could do the same with a longbow.


Aaron

Yup, but then no AOO with the guisarme.

 

[brento766]

the loophole!

the trick is at this point to take a level of monk. The monk's unarmed attack is not his fists, it is his whole body, and you do d6 instead of d4. A player in our group would always go monk/ranger (just two levels of monk) so that he could always threaten even when he had the bow in his hands, he could just kick adjacent enemies. This would work with your guisarm as well.

 

[Pax]

I would let you attack with both, but at normal TWF penalties, e.g. -2 to all attacks. In case you want to use a heavy shield instead of the gauntlets, -4 to everything.

I would even let you threaten with both weapons, but only if you took the -2 penalty on your attacks last round.

Hehehe. I went through a whole bunch of "I disagree" bits, one after each of your responses ... then read this bit. Which is exactly what I'd rule: if you tookteh penalties for dual-wielding, even if you didn't use one or the other weapon, I'd let you threaten with each one simultaneously, and make AoO's with the appropriate weapon, as opportunities presented themselves.

Yes, I'd allow that even if one of the weapons was a bow. The penalty you take for the dual-wield respresents your efforts to (for that case) fire each shot more quickly than might be prudent, while also trying to keep your gautlet-ed hands ready to lash out at nearby "targets of opportunity".

The catch in each case is, I'd require you to make the AoO with the weapon whose threat radius produced the AoO. IOW, you couldn't take a longbow shot as your AoO, but could try and swipe the unlucky sot with a gauntleted backhand. Still with the full TWF penalties in place, of course.

 

[Aaron2]

Yes, I'd allow that even if one of the weapons was a bow. The penalty you take for the dual-wield respresents your efforts to (for that case) fire each shot more quickly than might be prudent, while also trying to keep your gautlet-ed hands ready to lash out at nearby "targets of opportunity".

I disagree with this. Take, for example, a character who fires off a full round with his bow, drops it and then quick draws a dagger. He can AoO with the dagger with no penalty. Next round he drops the dagger, quickdraws another bow (from his HHH) and keeps on firing. This is by the book.

If another character, instead of dropping his bow and drawing a dagger, simply lets go of the bow with one hand (the other bearing the spiked guantlet), why should he take TWF penalty when the first character does not?


Aaron

 

[hong]

My head hurts.