Ray of Enfeeblement stack?

[0-hr]

If you hit an 18 Strength critter with a Ray of Enfeeblement for 6 points and then next round hit with anothe for 10 points, is the critter down 10 or 16 points total?

It's an unnamed penalty to Strength, so it seems it should stack, but then there is that bit about a the same spell always overlapping with itself (isn't there?).

Also, if a 6th level mage casts an empowered ray of enfeeblement and confirms a critical hit, how much strength is lost?

Ray of Enfeeblement
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Ray
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

A coruscating ray springs from your hand. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike a target. The subject takes a penalty to Strength equal to 1d6+1 per two caster levels (maximum 1d6+5). The subject’s Strength score cannot drop below 1.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It's an unnamed penalty to Strength, so it seems it should stack, but then there is that bit about a the same spell always overlapping with itself (isn't there?).

Indeed there is. Two (or more) rays of enfeeblement overlap, not stack.

 

[shilsen]

What Mouseferatu said. The PHB (pg. 172) uses RoE as the specific example for overlapping spell effects.

 

[0-hr]

Heh, thanks. I thought that sounded familiar

So about the critical empowered spell. Normally, the spell would inflict a d6+3 strength penalty.

Empowered that would be (d6+3) x 1.5

Critical'ed, that would be 2d6+6

My guess is that both operate on the base 'damage', so you'd get (d6+3)x1.5 + d6+3

Is that correct?

 

[Elephant]

I would lean towards (2d6+6)x1.5, per the text of Empower Spell.

 

[Thanee]

Actually, that's not really relevant, since you cannot critical with an attack that does no damage.

Bye
Thanee

 

[0-hr]

Hmm, that's an interesting take on it Thanee. Could I get some references to back that up (not saying it ain't true, just want to read it for myself)? I can see that Enfeeblement inflicts a penatly to STR rather than STR 'damage', but how is this different than energy drain's negative levels doubling on a crit?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I can see that Enfeeblement inflicts a penatly to STR rather than STR 'damage'

That is exactly the reason.

"Damage" is defined as damage to hit points, damage to an ability score, or damage to character levels (energy drain).

 

[Sejs]

As Patryn said - RoE's an ability penalty, not ability damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Indeed, Complete Arcane, in the course of explaining Weaponlike spells and critical hits, states on p86 "Spells that require attack rolls but do not deal actual damage cannot score critical hits", and then uses Ray of Enfeeblement as the example of such a spell.

-Hyp.