Rate my Aspect of Tiamat

[brehobit]

I'm shooting for CR 13, but I think it's probably 14? I'd like your thoughts.

Aspect Of Tiamat
Huge dragon, chaotic evil

Armor Class 20 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 190 (18d10 + 90)
Speed 40 ft., climb 40 ft., fly 80 ft.
STR 24 (+7) DEX 11 (+0) CON 20 (+5) INT 19 (+4) WIS 16 (+3) CHA 19 (+4)
Saving Throws DEX +4, CON +11, WIS +8, CHA +0

Skills Arcana +8, Athletics +13, History +8, Intimidation+8, Perception +7, Religion +8, Stealth +4, Survival +7
Condition immunities: charmed, frightened, poisoned, sleep.
Damage Resistance: acid, cold, fire, lighting, poison. Non-magical weapon damage.
Senses: Blindsight 60 ft., Darkvision 120 ft., Passive Perception 19
Languages: Common, Draconic, Infernal, Abyssal.
Challenge 13
Legendary Resistance: 3/day
Legendary actions: 5
Magic weapons: Her attacks are treated as magical

Actions
Multi-attack: The Aspect may use its frightful presence and then make two claw attacks and one sting attack.
Claw: +10 attack, 5’ reach, 2d6+7 (14) damage
Stinger: +10 attack, 10’ reach, d8+7 damage (11), Con save DC 15 or poisoned for 1 minute.
Frightful Presence: Each creature of the dragon's choice that is within 120 feet of the dragon and aware of it must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw or become Frightened for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to the dragon's Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours.

Legendary actions:
Bite: +10 attack, 10’ reach, d12+7 (13) damage plus d8 (4) damage of either cold, fire, poison, acid, or lightning.
Breath weapon (elemental 30' cone): (2 actions) 30’ cone, (28) 8d6 damage. Can select from fire, cold, or acid. Dex save, DC 18, for half.
Breath weapon (line): (2 actions) 90’ line (35) 10d6 damage electricity. Dex save, DC 18, for half.
Breath weapon (poison cone): (2 actions) 20' code, (21) 6d6 poison damage. Con save, DC 18, for half. Anyone failing the save gains the poisoned condition for 1 round.

Tiamat can’t use same head twice in a round and can’t use same breath weapon in successive rounds.

 

[Leatherhead]

I'm going to be honest with you, this thing is way more than CR 13.
I would recommend contrasting it with the Adult White Dragon. Not only does it have significantly better defenses, but it gets to use a breath weapon every round, in addition to it's full attack routine.

Also, you don't list how many legendary actions it gets, but I am assuming 3.

 

[clearstream]

Each Legendary action needs a cost, typically there will be two or three that cost 1pt, and one stronger that costs 2pts. I've found that it is quite valuable to have a movement option in the Legendary actions. Usually something like a half-speed move such as in her case a Fly 40'.

I like creatures with skills, I think it enhances their RP possibilities and better stacks them up against character shenanigans. It's not clear to me here how the Skills are calculated. Say she is CR 13 or 14. Her prof. bonus is +5. I make it -

Arcana +9
Athletics +12
History +9
Intimidation +9
Perception +8
Religion +8
Stealth +5
Survival +8

Some of those don't quite chime for me. I think as a massive godly dragon she should lose Stealth, and with all her minions, why have Survival? I would instead give her Insight +8, and Expertise on Deception +14 and Perception +13. Her passive Perception of 23 will then make it tougher for characters with Expertise Stealth, pass without trace, guidance and bardic inspiration to sneak up on her. At her tier, I suspect some will still manage it!

I'd have he Stinger simply do open-ended poisoning (the condition lasts until removed).

Why is her Charisma saving throw 0? With her expected proficiency bonus of +5, I would expect bonused saves of - Dex +5, Con +10, Wis +8. Do you mean to penalise Cha?

I like the high AC and attack modifiers you've gone with. Her HP and damage aren't exceptional. CR 14 perhaps?

 

[dave2008]

A decent start, thank you for sharing. A couple of comments:

1) The CR is off. I did a quick check and I get: defensive CR 13 & attack CR 21+. So (13+21)/2 = CR 17

2) At CR 17 her proficiency bonus is +6, so everything needs to be adjusted accordingly

3) Charisma should either not be listed (you don't list saves without proficiency) or it should be +10 (per comment #2)

4) Dragon's typically have expertise in Perception, so her Perception bonus should be +15 (per comment #2) with a passive Perception of +25

5) She needs some movement options. Either a limited (distance) teleport action or legendary action or flyby action or wing attack legendary action (see all adult or ancient dragon entries)

6) I would recommend adding innate spellcasting. That is a glaring weakness in the official WotC version. No need to replicate it here.

PS I agree with @clearstream , Stealth proficiency doesn't really make sense for Tiamat - even if it is just an aspect.

EDIT:

7) Her HD / hit points are calculated wrong. Huge creatures use a d12 not a d10. It should be: 207 (18d12 + 90). This then raises her defensive CR to 14. Coupled with increasing her proficiency bonus as noted in comment #2 gives her an overall CR closer to 18.

 

[brehobit]

Thank you all for the feedback. I figured I was high, but didn't think I was that high. The detailed feedback is really useful.

I didn't figure she should move around a lot, but yes, I can see why that would be important. I'll add something like it.

What level party would you say she would be a good solo-capstone-for-the-campaign?

 

[dave2008]

Thank you all for the feedback. I figured I was high, but didn't think I was that high. The detailed feedback is really useful.

I didn't figure she should move around a lot, but yes, I can see why that would be important. I'll add something like it.

What level party would you say she would be a good solo-capstone-for-the-campaign?

It really depends on the party (size, optimization, composition, equipment, etc.) but she looks like a decent challenge for a lvl 10 party of 4 pCs, but her HP are probably a bit low if they are at full strength (ie they can nova).

 

[brehobit]

It really depends on the party (size, optimization, composition, equipment, etc.) but she looks like a decent challenge for a lvl 10 party of 4 pCs, but her HP are probably a bit low if they are at full strength (ie they can nova).

Perfect, I'm planning it for the end of Red Hand of Doom, so that's where they should be. And the party is grossly optimized and heavy on magic, so should be about perfect with the hit points added and a move option put in for a legendary action.

 

[pukunui]

[MENTION=12032]brehobit[/MENTION]: Have you looked at the Tiamat stats in The Rise of Tiamat? She’s CR 30, but the book includes a number of options to weaken her enough that a party of 14th or 15th level PCs can beat her.

 

[dave2008]

Perfect, I'm planning it for the end of Red Hand of Doom, so that's where they should be. And the party is grossly optimized and heavy on magic, so should be about perfect with the hit points added and a move option put in for a legendary action.

If they are heavily optimized I would suggest increasing her hit points. If they are heavy on magic (if that means spells) then I would give her magic resistance or something similar.

 

[brehobit]

[MENTION=12032]brehobit[/MENTION]: Have you looked at the Tiamat stats in The Rise of Tiamat? She’s CR 30, but the book includes a number of options to weaken her enough that a party of 14th or 15th level PCs can beat her.

I did base her off the CR 30 one but didn't see how to reduce her...