D&D 5E rapier+dagger and/or longsword+dagger?

[Anakzar]

I have a player that wants to run a fighter/rogue type (basically a Three musketeer like character) that wields either a rapier and dagger or a long sword and dagger.

I don't really see an issue with balance as the weapons are 1d8 and 1d4 VS 1d6 so its a wash damage wise... But going strictly RAW it can't be done without taking a feat. I am leaning towards allowing it without the feat, for just those two weapon combos.


I am asking for any ideas or reasons that it would be a bad idea. Mechanically he has not decided yet between fighter or rogue.

 

[mellored]

It matters with multi-attack.

1d6+1d6+1d6 (off-hand)
vs
1d8+1d8+1d4 (off-hand)

Not to mention OA's and suh.


That said, it's fairly minimal and TWF tends to be on the weaker side, so there's little reason not to.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Quite honestly, 90% of the the Dual Wielder feat is the +1 AC. The elimination of the Light restriction is very minor, especially if the player restricts themselves to a Light, Simple weapon in the off-hand.

 

[Salamandyr]

I would definitely allow it, without requiring a feat; It's mildly, mildly more powerful than using two light weapons to dual wield, but not enough to worry about.

something you might consider, since sword and dagger is fundamentally different than using two equal length weapons (the dagger is used more to parry and make opportunistic attacks against someone who gets inside the rapiers guard), maybe try an entirely new mechanic for it.

The Main Gauche: When holding a dagger or torch in the off-hand while attacking with a one-handed or versatile weapon in the main hand, the character has +1 to AC and rolls an extra d4 on critical hits. When used in this fashion, the dagger or torch is not considered a weapon.

Obviously this is meant to be an option for using a dagger in place of a shield for Duellists who want a little extra oomph (and for dungeon crawlers who need to occupy one hand with a torch)

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

If the flavour is what is important, bear in mind that he could fight holding both a rapier and dagger, he just can't make a bonus action attack using the dual-wielding rules.

If he goes Fighter, you could just swap the fighting style bonus with the feat, so the fighting style grants the ability to dual-wield non-light weapons, and the feat grants the stat-to-damage on the bonus attack.

Otherwise, he can always attack with the rapier mostly, but hold the dagger in off-hand for opportunistic throwing, in case of disarms or grapples, and style points.

 

[dmnqwk]

Rather than worry about it, create a new Fighting Style to support this instead!

Swashbuckle: You have +2 AC while wielding a light weapon in your off-hand. You lose this bonus if you use a Bonus Action to attack with this weapon. When an attack misses you by 2 or less, you may use your reaction to make an attack with your off-hand weapon, adding your dexterity bonus to any attack.

The reason I don't feel this would be overpowered is:
A) It costs you your reaction to make the off-hand attack, and only if they miss you by 2 or less (to signify the off-hand deflects the blow before riposting, similar but not exactly like Battle Master's Maneuver).
B) Normally you would just take the +2 damage with 1h weapon style, so I feel the +2 on every main hand attack is easily more damage than the odd 1d4+dex.
C) The loss of the AC when attacking with your off-hand is to ensure someone doesn't take this style and use a Short sword/Dagger combo.

Hopefully this Fighting Style will satisfy the player's desire for a Musketeer.

 

[Shiroiken]

I allow this in my campaign, but not just these combos. I basically added the "Off Hand" trait to 1d4 Light Weapons, which allows them to be used for an Attack as a bonus action (no damage modifier, as per TWF). I've found this isn't a problem at all balance wise, and is more realistic than most 1d6 Light Weapon combos (excluding the scimitar, which should have been a slashing rapier IMO).

 

[Anakzar]

Thanks for the replies. I like the fighting style Swashbuckle idea but may just allow the 1d4 off hand weapons, as there is less change to the game that way. The AC bump does fit the style of the musketeer better though...

Or I could add a weapon to the game and call it Mein Gauche, that can basically be used as either a dagger or a shield but not both in the same round.

 

[Anakzar]

Slashing rapier would be better called a Saber. So many missing weapons in 5th. I guess that might be so DMs can add their own weapons etc. for flavor...

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Slashing rapier would be better called a Saber. So many missing weapons in 5th. I guess that might be so DMs can add their own weapons etc. for flavor...

You could stat a sabre as a scimitar or longsword. You could even stat a scimitar as a longsword if you wanted to wield a larger one.
5e covers most weapons. There aren't many that don't fall somewhere in the existing categories.