Rapid Shot and Haste

[PaulKemp]

I'm sure this has been asked many time, but I do not have the search feature available.

The description of haste indicates that it is not cumulative "with similar effects, like those granted by a weapon of speed." I find this language ambiguous when considered in the context of a hasted archer who wants to use rapid shot on top of the extra attack granted him by haste. In other words, I can't decide if the prohibition on stacking "similar effects" applies only to magical effects (like those from a weapon of speed) or if it also applies to things like rapid shot.

Anyone have a rules cite that can resolve this?

 

[shilsen]

Haste and rapid shot work together. Effects that don't stack with haste usually say so in the ability description.

 

[Caliban]

I'm sure this has been asked many time, but I do not have the search feature available.

The description of haste indicates that it is not cumulative "with similar effects, like those granted by a weapon of speed." I find this language ambiguous when considered in the context of a hasted archer who wants to use rapid shot on top of the extra attack granted him by haste. In other words, I can't decide if the prohibition on stacking "similar effects" applies only to magical effects (like those from a weapon of speed) or if it also applies to things like rapid shot.

Anyone have a rules cite that can resolve this?

Nothing that specifically states whether Rapid Shot is "similar" to Haste in the context used by the Haste spell, but I've never seen it ruled that way.

Rapid Shot isn't similar to Haste, other than the extra attack. Rapid Shot causes a penalty on all attacks. Haste gives a bonus on all attacks, reflex saves, AC, and movement. Rapid shot represents an effect of skill, Haste is an effect of magic.

A weapon of Speed grants an extra attack with no penalty, is a magical effect, and Haste is the spell used to create that effect.

An extra attack from two weapon fighting would be a "skill effect" as well, in my opinion.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I agree with Caliban.

Things that won't stack with the extra attack from Haste:
* Another haste spell.
* A weapon of speed.
* Boots of Speed.
* Other magical effects that grant a free attack.

Things that do work with Haste, because they aren't magical "extra-attack effects":

* Rapid Shot.
* Two-Weapon Fighting.
* Other feats that provide extra attacks.

 

[dcollins]

In other words, I can't decide if the prohibition on stacking "similar effects" applies only to magical effects (like those from a weapon of speed) or if it also applies to things like rapid shot.

Anyone have a rules cite that can resolve this?

Magical effects only. This is an aspect of the rules in the PHB, "Magic: Combining Magical Effects: Stacking Effects", where one kind of benefit cannot be applied multiply. In particular, it says "Likewise, two haste spells do not make a creature doubly fast." A good clue in your case is that haste is the spell prerequisite for weapons of speed, which is what they're trying to prevent from stacking together.

Here's more language from the 3.0 FAQ. Note that it's only talking about preventing multiple magical effects, bonus attacks from feats are not at issue.

The description for the speed weapon property says it is
not cumulative with the haste spell, but exactly how this
applies in the game seems unclear, especially when two
weapons of speed are involved. Can you use two speed
weapons at the same time? What, exactly, is meant when
the rules say haste and speed don’t stack? Does it mean you
can use the speed property during the normal portion of
your turn, but not during the “extra” partial action you get
from haste?

You can use two weapons of speed at a time all right, but
you still only get one extra attack, from one weapon or the
other, not both. If you are under the effects of a haste spell, you
can use the extra attack action from one weapon of speed, or
the extra partial action from the haste spell, but not both.