D&D 5E Ranking Conditions

[dave2008]

I've been thinking about creating rules / guidelines for making custom spells and whenever I try this I get tripped up by conditions. I've basically decided to subtract an amount of damage for adding a condition, but how much? I thought the first step would be to rank the conditions. I've created categories for Minor, Moderate, Major, & Extreme Conditions. Just curious what people think were the conditions would fit in that ranking system. Here is what I came up with on a first pass. What do you think?

Minor Conditions
Charmed
Deafened
Exhaustion level 1
Grappled
Prone

Lesser Conditions
Exhaustion level 2

Moderate Conditions
Blinded
Exhaustion level 3
Frightened
Poisoned
Incapacitated
Restrained

Greater Conditions
Exhaustion level 4
Invisible
Petrified
Stunned

Major Conditions
Exhaustion level 5
Paralyzed
Unconscious

Extreme Conditions
Death
Exhaustion level 6

EDIT: Update rankings based on suggestions from @Immoralkickass and @Dausuul

EDIT 2: Quick re-rank taking into account the multiple levels of exhaustion per @mrpopstar and @prabe 's suggestions. I will have to review against the levels of exhaustion in more detail when I get some time later tonight (or maybe on my lunch break).

 

[jgsugden]

Why have a system? I've tried this type of exercise a lot over the decades I've plaed D&D, and it has never paid off.

Systems provide structure and rigidity. If you have trouble putting one together, why not just stick to subjective analysis?

After all, if your player makes a 5th level spell that turns out to be too strong, you can add some drawacks to it that he discovers over time. If it is too weak, you can allow him to discover ways to tweak it to make it stronger.

If you provide rigid rules, you're just asking for someone to abuse them by finding a corner case. Then you have to tweak the rules, and that ends up with the same net effect as a subjective analysis... and if you told the player they could have it per your written rules and then you take it away from them, it often doesn't sit as well with the player as if you let them know it is subjective and may be tweaked as you go along. Seeing it in print gives them a real expectation.

 

[dave2008]

Why have a system? I've tried this type of exercise a lot over the decades I've plaed D&D, and it has never paid off.

Systems provide structure and rigidity. If you have trouble putting one together, why not just stick to subjective analysis?

After all, if your player makes a 5th level spell that turns out to be too strong, you can add some drawacks to it that he discovers over time. If it is too weak, you can allow him to discover ways to tweak it to make it stronger.

If you provide rigid rules, you're just asking for someone to abuse them by finding a corner case. Then you have to tweak the rules, and that ends up with the same net effect as a subjective analysis... and if you told the player they could have it per your written rules and then you take it away from them, it often doesn't sit as well with the player as if you let them know it is subjective and may be tweaked as you go along. Seeing it in print gives them a real expectation.

I get what your saying, and I don't necessarily disagree. However, I am trying to get to a better version of something I did back in 4e. In 4e I ran an adventure were we didn't use "powers" at all. I just had the players improvise everything and then I adjudicated the effects and damages based roughly on the DMG 42. It worked well enough and some really liked it, but I always felt like I had to make up too much on the fly and it was hard to account for some things.

I want to try this again in 5e, but with a guide that I can use and give my players, they can improvise with an understanding of what they are doing instead of relying on me to make it up. So it is not really about making a custom spell , but making every spell custom (I should clarify in the OP I guess). I want to extend the concept to martial abilities too.

 

[Immoralkickass]

A few things stand out.

Blinded should be Moderate at least. If Invisible is Major because others can't see you, why is a condition that makes you cannot see others considered Minor?

Grappled should be Minor. Its only effect is Speed=0.

Poisoned should be Moderate.

Paralyzed is a better version of Stunned, they should not be in the same tier (I think Paralyzed should be Extreme, getting critted is nasty). Just like how Restrained is better than Grappled. The rank should be: Grappled -> Restrained -> Stunned -> Paralyzed.

 

[dave2008]

A few things stand out.

Blinded should be Moderate at least. If Invisible is Major because others can't see you, why is a condition that makes you cannot see others considered Minor?

Grappled should be Minor. Its only effect is Speed=0.

Poisoned should be Moderate.

Paralyzed is a better version of Stunned, they should not be in the same tier (I think Paralyzed should be Extreme, getting critted is nasty). Just like how Restrained is better than Grappled. The rank should be: Grappled -> Restrained -> Stunned -> Paralyzed.

Good points all - thank you!

 

[Dausuul]

@Immoralkickass hit most of the points I wanted to make. One other note, though - Petrified is basically Stunned with a compensation prize of "resistance to all damage." It should be, at most, on the same level as Stunned, and possibly one level down.

The reason Petrification effects are scary is not that the Petrified condition itself is so bad; it's that the effects can quickly become permanent with no ongoing save. Imagine a spell that made you perma-Stunned, or (on the up side) perma-Invisible.

I have to head to work, but more thoughts later.

 

[dave2008]

@Immoralkickass hit most of the points I wanted to make. One other note, though - Petrified is basically Stunned with a compensation prize of "resistance to all damage." It should be, at most, on the same level as Stunned, and possibly one level down.

The reason Petrification effects are scary is not that the Petrified condition itself is so bad; it's that the effects can quickly become permanent with no ongoing save. Imagine a spell that made you perma-Stunned, or (on the up side) perma-Invisible.

I have to head to work, but more thoughts later.

Thank you for the reply. I see your point. I guess I think of pertification as being semi-permanent, while stunned is temporary. You can naturally recover from a stunning blow (monk attack), but you can't from being turned to stone by a medusa. However, those are duration issues, not condition issues. I will have to account for duration separately. Thank you for the suggestion and I look forward to what else you have to add.

 

[mrpopstar]

The ease or difficulty in overcoming each condition should also be considered (e.g. how many spell, feature, and equipment opportunities exist that remove or offer additional saves).

 

[dave2008]

The ease or difficulty in overcoming each condition should also be considered (e.g. how many spell, feature, and equipment opportunities exist that remove or offer additional saves).

Good point. Ideally, but that may be to much for this project. I would at least like to start with a baseline without those issues. Then they can be re-ranked or another variable added to account for those issues.

 

[dave2008]

Updated the rankings based on some good feedback so far. I will also note that I probably need to think about how exhaustion (fatigue) figures into the ranks as it gets worse (multiple levels of exhaustion)