Quick Question - What is a "Spellcaster"?

[Greenfield]

The question is simple enough: Do you have to actually have a caster level to qualify as a "Spellcaster", or is it enough to have a class that eventually grants one?

The context is the Craft Alchemy skill. Anyone can take the skill but only a spell caster can actually craft any alchemical materials.

So, can a 1st level Ranger craft alchemical items?

 

[Omegaxicor]

I don't think there is an official wording on that but given that Rangers and Paladins can't use scrolls/wands/etc then I assume they aren't spellcasters until they get a caster level but that would be my ruling so it really is up to the DM.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I'm pretty sure that the official 3E / 3.5 line is that you aren't a spellcaster unless you have a caster level.

 

[Umbran]

I would presume that a "spellcaster" is someone with some number of spells per day above zero.

The ability to cast spells some levels in the future probably doesn't count, because *anyone* could, some number of levels in the future, take a level of wizard or cleric.

 

[billd91]

I don't think there is an official wording on that but given that Rangers and Paladins can't use scrolls/wands/etc then I assume they aren't spellcasters until they get a caster level but that would be my ruling so it really is up to the DM.

Why can't rangers and paladins use wands and scrolls? I might buy them not using scrolls without their own caster levels, but why not wands which just require the spells to be on their class list?

 

[Omegaxicor]

Why can't rangers and paladins use wands and scrolls? I might buy them not using scrolls without their own caster levels, but why not wands which just require the spells to be on their class list?

yes, you're right they can't use scrolls but can use wands, I misremembered that.

 

[Tovec]

I'm pretty sure that the official 3E / 3.5 line is that you aren't a spellcaster unless you have a caster level.

This. I also remember this. I think it was answered in some online format (FAQs, WotC post/update, Q+A?) but they basically said that to be considered a spellcaster in anyclass you need a caster level. Basically he ability to cast spells in that class. So, rangers and paladins aren't casters until they get the 0 1st level spells per day. This would go for paladin and ranger scrolls and wands too.

Why can't rangers and paladins use wands and scrolls? I might buy them not using scrolls without their own caster levels, but why not wands which just require the spells to be on their class list?

Based on my remembering of that above official ruling the answer would go something like this:

That they can't cast spells from their class yet, as such they don't have a spell list. They will eventually get a spell list through leveling and at that point they can cast scrolls, wands, etc. of their class but until that time they should no more be able to cast those things (as a cleric casting a scroll or wand can cast cure light wounds from the cleric list) than they could cast arcane spells (the same cleric trying to cast knock from the wizard list). They will eventually get spell lists but at the moment they don't have one. Mind you ANYONE could eventually get a spell list in wizard casting for example, but unless they have it now they don't get that ability.

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This could totally be misremembered. I'm not discounting that. I'm only replying with my memory of the official ruling - not necessarily that I agree. I personally have entirely different gripes for both wands and scrolls. But as far as I know how the game is supposed to work is how I've given. If someone gives me better information I'll adhere to that instead.

 

[Stormonu]

What about gnomes or Drow, who can innately cast spells as part of their race?

 

[Greenfield]

Spell Completion: This is the activation method for scrolls. A scroll is a spell that is mostly finished. The preparation is done for the caster, so no preparation time is needed beforehand as with normal spellcasting. All that’s left to do is perform the finishing parts of the spellcasting (the final gestures, words, and so on). To use a spell completion item safely, a character must be of high enough level in the right class to cast the spell already. If he can’t already cast the spell, there’s a chance he’ll make a mistake. Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as
casting a spell does.

Spell Trigger: Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

So Paladin or Ranger can use wands, even if they have no caster level.

As written, they could also use a Scroll, based on a dice roll: You have a 5% chance of failure per Caster Level that you're short. They are the "right class", they just lack the right caster level.

Also, the descriptions for both Paladin and Ranger include the phrase, "Line other spellcasters...". Not exactly definitive, but it's something.

 

[Tovec]

What about gnomes or Drow, who can innately cast spells as part of their race?

Both have spell-LIKE abilities, not spells. They are not spellcasters by simply being members of their race. I suspect it is for this reason they have spell-like abilities and not spell abilities. Plus, if they were considered spellcasters (they aren't but if they were) then they would be members of which class? (They aren't so that answer is "No Class/None/Null".)

So Paladin or Ranger can use wands, even if they have no caster level.

While it doesn't mention anything under the Wand description it does say the following under Use Magic Device:

Use a Wand

Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs.

Under this condition, as far as I know, the ranger and cleric DO NOT POSSESS spell lists (yet) and thus cannot use the wand, normally . When they get spells per day "0" they can, even if their casting stat is too low.

(Unless I've been playing the game VERY wrong for many years now.)

As written, they could also use a Scroll, based on a dice roll: You have a 5% chance of failure per Caster Level that you're short. They are the "right class", they just lack the right caster level.

It says something similar to the wand bit under UMD for scrolls too. It is an odd place to put these rules though.

Use a Scroll

If you are casting a spell from a scroll, you have to decipher it first. Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.

Also, the descriptions for both Paladin and Ranger include the phrase, "Line other spellcasters...". Not exactly definitive, but it's something.

I would assume the missing part of that sentence to be "Like* other spellcasters (who have spell lists)..." I suspect this throw away line is less important than the actual parts of the rules that say what happens and the official rulings from WotC (or their reps). But once again, I might be wrong as far as the official rules go. I don't have the original source that I'm referencing, it is entirely from memory. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for it - I don't remember the details, just the ruling.

*I'm assuming it was "Like" and not "Line"


Quick question Greenfield. Why do you start posts like this? With questions that either have no answer, or are purposefully working on the fringes of the game? This is CharOps level readings of the rules most of the time and I've got to wonder why it matters? Most of the time you seem to have your own interpretation and I doubt this is for your own personal character, I'm guessing you are the DM anyway and so why not just go with whatever makes the most sense?

I mean it has always bugged me that scrolls and wands and what not are based on the class that the spell is from. I'd rather go with a source - so paladins, rangers, druids, clerics, etc. can all use divine scrolls/wands; and all arcane classes can use arcane scrolls and wands. This has never really come up but I probably would rule that way, regardless what the official rules say.