Questions about the Crescent Blade (Dragon #275)

[Kyamsil]

Hi.

I saw the stats for this exotic weapon only recently. By its particular mode of use, you get to apply only half your strength adjustment to each successful attack.

That's fine because it makes the weapon more balanced, but:

What about enhancement bonuses or any other bonus the weapon or wielder may have to damage (magic bonus, weapon specialization, some spells or class abilities)

What about using it on sneak attacks or having it enchanted with flaming, frost or similar abilities?

Isn't that weapon a little bit overpowered?

Thanks all.

 

[Wolf72]

hmm difficult question that is ...

imo: I'd only let any type of bonus dmg (from flaming etc... ) to work once ... dmg for enhancement I'd only let work once too (so you might do 1d3+.5 str, +1d3+.5 str, then +5 (for example) ...

as long as you hit with one of the rolls then you could add in the full magical dmg (but def not twice)

that's just off the top of my head, without to much thought behind it.

 

[smkun]

It only applies to Str. So say a fighter has a STR of 18(+4) and a BAB of +5, using 2 +1 Crescent knives one with flame and the other ice, with weapon focus and weapon spec, ambidex and 2 weapon fighting.

the priamry hand would be +9 and the secondary would also be +9 to hit, giving the weilder 4 attacks at +9 (2 for primary and 2 for secondary)

the damage would be
1d3+1(magic)+2(weapon spec)+2(.5 str)+1d6(flame) for the primary

1d3+1(magic)+2(weapon spec)+1(.25 str(becasue secondary hands are halved one already))+1d6 ice

If you GM allows this weapon it makes for a very fun and interesting character. Here is an example of one.

This character is based off of the Crescent Knife from Dragon Magazine issue 275, page 44.

Crescent Knife
Damage 1d3 / Critical x2 / Slashing / Light / Exotic
This weapon resembles a crescent shaped blade affixed to a crossbar handle. It allows its wielder to make two simultaneous attack rolls (using the same modifier) each time he attacks with it. Each attacks is rolled separately.

Character Info: Human
Attributes:
Strength: 18/+4
Dexterity: 16/+3
Constitution: 17/+3
Intelligence: 15/+2
Wisdom: 11/+0
Charisma 12/+1


Level 1:
Ranger 1
28 Skill points
2 Feats: EWP: Crescent Knife, WF: Crescent Knife
Free Ranger Feats: Track, Two Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity.
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +1 = +6
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +4/+4 Damage: 1d3+2
Secondary Hand: +4/+4 Damage 1d3+1

Level 2:
Ranger 1/Fighter 1
+5 Skill Points
Feat: Improved Initiative
Buy 2 Masterwork Crescent Knives
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +2/MW +1= +8
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +6 +6 / Damage: 1d3+2
Secondary Hand: +6 +6 Damage 1d3+1

Level 3:
Ranger 1/Fighter 2
+5 Skill Points
Feats: Power Attack, Dodge
Add 2 +1 Magic Crescent Knives
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +3/Magic +1 = +9
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +7/+7 Damage: 1d3+3
Secondary Hand: +7/+7 Damage 1d3+2

Level 4:
Ranger 1/Fighter 3
+5 Skill Points
Add +1 to Strength
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +4/Magic +1 = +10
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +8/+8 Damage: 1d3+3
Secondary Hand: +8/+8 Damage 1d3+2

Level 5:
Ranger 1/Fighter 4
+5 Skill Points
Feat: Weapon Specialization Crescent Knife
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +5/Magic +1 = +11
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +9/+9 Damage: 1d3+5
Secondary Hand: +9/+9 Damage 1d3+4

Level 6:
Ranger 1/Fighter 5
+5 Skill Points
Feat: Mobility
Add 2 +2 Magic Weapons, 1 +2, 1 +1 w/Flame
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +6/+1/Magic +1(+2) = +12(+13)
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +10/+10/+5/+5 Damage: 1d3+5+1d6
Secondary Hand: +11/+11 Damage 1d3+5

Level 7:
Ranger 1/Fighter 6
+5 Skill Points
Feat: Spring Attack
Attacks: Str +4/WF +1/BAB +7/+2/Magic +1(+2) = +13(+14)
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +11/+11/+6/+6 Damage: 1d3+5+1d6
Secondary Hand: +12/+12 Damage 1d3+5

Level 8:
Ranger 1/Fighter 7
+5 Skill Points
Add +1 to Strength
Add a +2 Strength Item (Gauntlets of Ogre Power)
Attacks: Str +7/WF +1/BAB +8/+3/Magic +1(+2) = +17(+18)
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +15/+15/+10/+10
Damage: 1d3+7+1d6
Secondary Hand: +16/+16 Damage 1d3+5

Level 9:
Ranger 1/Fighter 8
+5 Skill Points
Add 2 +3 magic knives. 1 is +2 w/flame, the other is +2 w/shock
Feat: Improved 2 Weapon Fighting, Expertise
Attacks: Str +7/WF +1/BAB +9/+4/Magic +2 = +19
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +17/+17/+12/+12
Damage: 1d3+8+1d6
Secondary Hand: +17/+17/+12/+12
Damage 1d3+6+1d6

Level 10:
Ranger 1/Fighter 9
+5 Skill Points
Feat: Blind Fighting
Attacks: Str +7/WF +1/BAB +10/+5/Magic +2 = +20
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +18/+18/+13/+13
Damage: 1d3+8+1d6
Secondary Hand: +18/+18/+13/+13
Damage 1d3+6+1d6

Level 11:
Ranger 1/Fighter 10
+5 Skill Points
Feat: Combat Reflexes
Attacks: Str +7/WF +1/BAB +11/+6/+1/Magic +2 = +21
Wielding 2 Crescent Knives:
Primary Hand: +19/+19/+14/+14/+9/+9
Damage: 1d3+8+1d6
Secondary Hand: +19/+19/+14/+14
Damage 1d3+5+1d6

And this gets even nastier if you use something like tempest from MotW.

 

[Kyamsil]

Definitely an interesting character

Can't wait for my players to meet the nasty crescent blade mercenary or better yet, the pair of them with things like Dual Strike !

 

[Plane Sailing]

my opinion - Crescent knives are ill concieved, ill thought out, and would be better not existing. Far too powerful (as the poster above illustrates) and probably designed by someone with a klingon fetish

 

[Kyamsil]

imo: I'd only let any type of bonus dmg (from flaming etc... ) to work once ... dmg for enhancement I'd only let work once too (so you might do 1d3+.5 str, +1d3+.5 str, then +5 (for example) ...

as long as you hit with one of the rolls then you could add in the full magical dmg (but def not twice)

That sounds like a good idea to me (definitely a little more balanced than having the bonuses apply twice ) It makes the weapon have an interesting advantage (having two chances to hit with each attack to apply the magical damage of your weapon)

But some more questions come to my mind...

What about sneak attacks?

What about critical hits?

Another one, a bit more strange. The crescent blade seems a bit like a double weapon in the means of use (two "heads")... Whould you have to enchant each "edge" separately?

 

[Jens]

Could (Should!) this not be handled like Shurikens? - Roll multiple attacks, only one (the first?) gets all the various damage bonuses.

Edit: This is really a silly weapon. Would it get three attacks if a spike was placed jutting out in the middle of the crescent? Why not let a halberdier attack multiple times at well? Utter silliness imo

 

[Wolf72]

actually in a set of 3 +5 shuriken ... all three would get that +5 to hit and dmg (if all thrown at once)

 

[smkun]

Characters like the one I posted above really own seem nasty on paper, but at the levels they need to be at to be insanely nasty, other characters can compete with them, clerics/druids can harm, mages have a number of spells that offer no save, monks can be uber (though only once per week), fighter archers can elimate such a foe before he gets an attack off, and fighters that go the power attack route can deal a load of damage as well. Now I am not saying the above character is not atleast somewhat broken because it sure can be, given the right magic items, feats, etc. But he's not as unbalanced as some would think. He still has to win initiative and be in threat range to deal all those attacks (a few of which will miss due to high AC). Just hope that cleric doesn't get the reached harm, quickend searing light combo off before he gets to attack. But it all comes down to your DM and the kind fo games they run and their abilities to challenge you. As a DM I have no problems allowing something like this in the campaign, what's good for the PC's is good for the NPC's, and the crescent knife fighter went down like a ton of bricks when the Orc Barb/Eye of Gruumsh got his attacks off before he did (thanks sultans of smack for that one)

 

[shurai]

. . . probably designed by someone with a klingon fetish

Actually it sounds like a Chinese weapon, called Dearhorn Knives in English, but also known as Zi Wu Yuan Yang Yue or Ba Gua Yuan Yang Yue.

If you want some pictures, they are here:

http://www.bodymindharmony.com/deerhorn.htm

I've never seen the Dragon article. Is this the weapon?

-S